While I now ride a Harley, for the longest time I had mainly bmw with an occasional Ducati or KTM thrown in.
BMW was gaining a reputation as a pipe and slippers bike and truth be known most customers were gray and overweight and disliked change.
BMW chose to go with technological features on new models that pissed off many in the old crowd. The introduced more engine, under the bmw label and kept trying new models. They then introduced a kick *** sport bike that beat everything else around.
Their best sellers are still the pipe and slipper bikes. (Touring and Adventure), but they have attracted new riders to both those bikes and they have a pipeline of young riders brought into the brand by the high performance bikes.
Harley needs a lighter, more powerful, sportier bike with user selected performance modes, traction control, etc.
I’m a geezer now and I don’t need any of that **** because I learned how to go fast on the track before that stuff was available. But younger, good riders are going to want to see more than chrome or blacked out engines.
Yup the S1000RR has brought a much younger crowd to BMW !
This is is just another example of how Harley Davidson has painted themselves into a corner over the years. Too many riders have allowed themselves to be convinced you need 1500-2000cc's to do anything other than putt over to the store. The older and some younger Harley diehards will never accept a smaller displacement Harley Davidson as a 'real' Harley Davidson. It isn't 'manly' enough I guess. The fact that an 883 Sportster is considered by some a 'girls bike' is a perfect example of this mindset. Hell, when I went to look at the SuperLow the sales lady automatically assumed I wanted to look at the 1200, and seemed shocked when I said no, the 883. THAT has to change at the corporate and dealership level. The Street line was an gutsy attempt on Harley's part, but Harley's subsequent advertising campaign failed miserably.
Same here, I tried the big ones and didn't like them. Getting them to turn on twisty mountain roads was no fun. I find the Sportsters more fun on twisty roads although the foot pegs tend to come in contact with the road too easily. The Sportster Roadster features a much better lean angle so should be more fun, but I haven't tried it yet.
Possibly more people are realizing that an accident doesn't necessarily mean going "out of this world on two wheels" or "mother nature takes me out", sometimes it is much worse. And considering odds/probabilities is more likely. And they don't feel the benefit/pleasure of riding justifies the possible downside?
The world is more populated and in a bigger hurry then when some of us began riding. Different conditions may mean different priorities?
i agree 100%. You are correct, riding could result in a life changing debilitating accident vs. death. The comment “before Mother Nature takes me out” is in reference to dying from sickness or disease. I hope old age is what gets me. The point is I love to ride like so many of us on this forum, that’s what Harley needs to figure out how to market.
This is is just another example of how Harley Davidson has painted themselves into a corner over the years. Too many riders have allowed themselves to be convinced you need 1500-2000cc's to do anything other than putt over to the store. The older and some younger Harley diehards will never accept a smaller displacement Harley Davidson as a 'real' Harley Davidson. It isn't 'manly' enough I guess. The fact that an 883 Sportster is considered by some a 'girls bike' is a perfect example of this mindset. Hell, when I went to look at the SuperLow the sales lady automatically assumed I wanted to look at the 1200, and seemed shocked when I said no, the 883. THAT has to change at the corporate and dealership level. The Street line was an gutsy attempt on Harley's part, but Harley's subsequent advertising campaign failed miserably.
Lot of truth here. I have a good friend who told me I needed to "upgrade" from my Dyna and get a bigger bike (bagger). Seriously? I have a buddy who rides his Sporty as much as his Road King because it's fun, which is what riding a motorcycle should be.
This article reports that HD's Kansas plan will shut down in 2019 and move 450 workers to York, PA, citing price as the main reason for HD's decreased U.S. sales. But scroll down to the first reader's post. Alex makes the case that HD's problem is more generalized to all motorcycling because of the "fear factor" instilled by overcautious helicopter parents and overbearing spouses. And I agree. I know many people who secretly want to own a Harley and ride, but they're afraid. They're literally in the closet...or our version would be, "In the garage."
I know many people who are secretly "In the garage" and need some help to come out. Recently, my cousin looks at my Harley and says to me, "Man I have always wanted a Harley..." and his wife grabs his arm, pulls him away and says, "Your a Dad now, time to grow up." And he shrugs his shoulders walks away, defeated. WTF? Being a Dad used to mean modeling true American grit, and freedom, and adventure. Many of us grew up like the kid in this photo. I keep it on my desktop to remind me what an awesome adventure my childhood was. What happened to us, America?
I think my cousin and millions like him, are the new HD market. They have the money. They have the desire. What they don't have is permission.
Now I'm not saying we should tell our wives to F-Off. I love my wife and would be lost without her. But there's a way to respectfully communicate, show mutual respect, and still be your own person. My wife would never admit it, but she is attracted to the rebellious side of me. If I followed her orders I would never have joined the Marines, got my tattoos, purchased a home defense shotgun, or have a Harley in the garage. I know deep down she loves that part of me that is...well...a Man.
This thread is our opportunity to speak directly to HD CEO Matt Levatich with our suggestions for getting closet riders to come out so we can Make Riding Great Again.
As I see it, the problem is the wuss-if-ication of American men and women. A tactful marketing campaign to target the millions of Americans like my cousin is a start. He just needs permission to buy and ride.
C'Mon Willie G and Mr. Levatich. Get HD's brightest minds together and figure out how to give these tortured souls permission to break out of their hum-drum existence and start living life as the adventure it should be.
tell them to:
1. Make a tracker that will beat a ftr1200
2. Make a bike we can take off road. Like a ktm 790 or 1290.
as for the guy who won't stand up to his wife...he just needs to go take a MSF class or Harley riding class and then kust buy a bike. She might grumble for 2 weeks but deep down she will respect him for being a man.
Lot of truth here. I have a good friend who told me I needed to "upgrade" from my Dyna and get a bigger bike (bagger). Seriously? I have a buddy who rides his Sporty as much as his Road King because it's fun, which is what riding a motorcycle should be.
I know quite a few guys who 'needed' a bagger for the one time a year they drove farther than 50 miles from home...
As much as I dislike saying it: Execs and shareholders don't make course decisions based on customer feedback or advice. They make it on the one thing which keeps them all in the game, and of course that's money. Sales. It's not even about how many bikes as much as it is about overall profitability and market share.
We speak best and loudest with our feet and our wallets. That's what they notice. And that's why we don't get what we want. We get what they think will sell.
If HD continues on it's current path it will become the next Indian.
I know quite a few guys who 'needed' a bagger for the one time a year they drove farther than 50 miles from home...
That's still better than my old neighbor who only chromed out the back half of his bike because that's what people see when looking in his garage. He rode the thing 4 times the entire 6 years I've known him. The best part is he would tell people at the bar how he's a "biker" and would talk **** about any bike that wasn't a Harley big twin...
And people wonder why young guys want nothing to do with Harleys, some of the Harley riders are just lame.
That's still better than my old neighbor who only chromed out the back half of his bike because that's what people see when looking in his garage. He rode the thing 4 times the entire 6 years I've known him. The best part is he would tell people at the bar how he's a "biker" and would talk **** about any bike that wasn't a Harley big twin...
And people wonder why young guys want nothing to do with Harleys, some of the Harley riders are just lame.
It's a generational thing there, when they took being a man to own and maintain one out of the equation it only took about 10 years to devolve into what you're experiencing today, wasn't like this before the Evo, easy financing and harleys mad marketing campaign buy a harley and be an instant badass.
he would tell people at the bar how he's a "biker" and would talk **** about any bike that wasn't a Harley big twin...
And people wonder why young guys want nothing to do with Harleys, some of the Harley riders are just lame.
BINGO!!!! The HD riders are the reason HD is failing the most. Nobody wants to go to a bike event nowadays and see maga hats and confederate flags all over the damn place.
02-11-2018, 02:06 AM
