I've been arguing for years that H-D has stopped giving us what they should in a $30,000 motorcycle. Here and in other places, and I've gotten flamed for it. While there are many places on the bike they do this, the place they do this worst is the motor. They give us 120CI that give us some 90 HP. HD is barely giving you .8 HP per CI. thats POINT 8. BMW and others have given you 2.5HP per CI on normally aspirated engines. 15 years ago. They made a 70 odd CI engine, 1200 CC's, that made 160+ HP.

It costs thousands to get modern H-D's over 100 and tens of thousands to get to 120HP. Its ridiculous when economy car and bike engines are far more efficient. The problems are air cooling, not allowing optimal cooling for performance and ignition, and very heavy valve trains, with pushrods and heavy claw type actuators instead of OHC's actuating the valves directly. Harley has said that this is because thats what the users want, particulary pushrods, but my seat of the pants questioning tells me that 80% of riders today don't know what pushrods are. I personnally think they should have fixed the motors, with water cooling and OHC's and if you thought people wanted the look of pushrods, keep the tubes and have them be oil passageways, or just be totally decorative. Porsche took the jump to water cooling, after being air cooled for half a century, because they could not meet modern emissions requirements and performance expectations with air cooled motors.

They had a motor, on the VRod, that could be upped a few 100 CC's, installed in the big bikes and made them much more competitive. I think they've lost market share because a modern bike engine, such as that in an Indian Challenger, can give you 125HP out of the box and 140+ with a breather, exhaust and a tune.

I think Harley is finally going to do this. I think we're finally going to get this more modern engine in a big Harley. https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/e...y-sign-up.html Stay tune.

 

We will see if they drop the motor from the Pan America "as is" in it. This is only the prototype shown.

 

it's in the near future for sure, but if they are overcharging for bikes with outdated technology, what the hell are we going to be charged for up to date technology? it's not going to be pretty...

 

My '90 Evo, with the benefit of some internal engine work, puts out mid 90's for both HP and torque.

The nice thing about it is that it's torque curve is as flat as a Kansas prairie.

Thermodynamics can't be cheated. The gaudy HP numbers you see are almost always associated with overhead cam engines running at astronomical RPMs. Zinging a motor up to 12,000 RPM is fun.

Once in a while.

Living with a motor like that is a different thing entirely.

A Hayabusa puts out about 175HP. But you don't get there until you're around 10k RPM. And my lowly old Evo is pretty much it's match for peak torque. But my Evo get's there just over 2k RPM, while the 'Busa doesn't reach it's peak until you get to 8k.

IMHO, big HP numbers are almost entirely meaningless when it comes to driving/riding dynamics and enjoyment. For a street bike, I'll take a big-displacement, low-revving torque box over an RPM queen every day of the week.

 

I want my Panhead back.

Every time HD comes out with something new it's 10 years to get all the crap straighten out and the bad designs they use fixed. Who want to be the test pig for them ? I wouldn't buy anything new they come up with for a couple of years.

 

Although the Pan Am motor is impressive, it’s lower torque is not suitable for a large touring bike. Now, stroke that sucker, and get the torque in the 130 ft-lbs range from 2,500 and then we’re talking. Unless of course the diehards would never think of a water cooled motor in a touring platform. Plus it would be really lacking the Harley sound. You need large exhaust waves for that…which you don’t get from a multi valve, OHC with VVT.

 

I hope all the new motors and bikes they come in are a huge success for Harley Davidson.

That being said, one ride on my son's new Iron back in June of '17 was all it took for me to switch from Japanese bikes to a Harley. Japanese bikes are for the most part technological marvels, but the refinement of them caused them to become boring to me after a couple of years or so. The rawness of the Evo powered Sportster and it's mechanical music even after almost 4 years and 25,000 miles hasn't become boring to me in the least bit. It still scratches my motorcycle itch.

 

With the acceptance, rave reviews, and sales on the new PanAm, Harley hit the mark with the new engine in this style of bike. With the reveal on the street model coming up in a few weeks, we can probably expect the same type of response....especially if they keep the price point in line with other brands like they did with the Pan Am. I can see a future with the MoCo popping these into touring models.

With that being said, I really like the timeless beauty and classic looks of an air-cooled big twin. Sure, it costs a bit to achieve the power you seek but it is not hundreds of thousands.

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softa...l#post18854802

 

I am sure the new Pan Am will be a nice bike, but I would have to respectfully disagree with a previous post, Japanese big HP bikes are anything but boring, and unusable. A modern GSXR 1000 will reach 300 km per hr in less than 30 seconds, albeit irresponsable that is VERY exciting, at least to me.

I have settled into my RKS quite well, and I really like the old school pushrod design, especially the look. So it's down on HP
( maybe pushing 90 + HP) at my higher elevation, but for what this bike is designed for, I think they did a decent job.
I don't want a RK with a with a water cooled motor....BLASPHEMY.

 

With there being no doubt that stricter EPA, CARB and EU emissions regulations are on the way, air-cooled pushrod motors will be a relic sooner than later. With the Pan America, like it or not, we’re looking at the future of H-D.