The responce to the Nightrider field test thread indicates that a lot of riders are interested in this topic.Many of the replies concerned the use of the IED'S with the stage 1 download and this is my interest also.However I did notice that many who have done the download are using a variety of pipes/slipons and air cleaners.A while back I posted a thread in the dyna forum about the stage 1 download and received a reply from Trotter in which he indicates that the download is specifically for the combination of :SE street legal slipons and SE EFI air cleaner kit.This makes sense to me because H-D even provides dyno sheets showing the performance gains with this combination (app. 10% increase in torque&hp).SO,if you are not using this specific setup you may not be getting the performance you expected.I'm still in a learning stage and would greatly appreciate all replies on this subject,thanks.

 

You are correct according to my Dealer. Which doesn't necessarily mean the info is 100% right, just that my dealer said the same thing.

Apparently the stage one downloadis calibratedby using an 07 Bike, maybe an 08 this year and adding the HD equipment, SE AC (Screaming Eagle Air Kit), and Screaming Eagle slip on mufflers. Then tuning the bike on a Dyno at all various rpms, loads, and other usual factors done when dyno tuning. Except the bike is not ultimately tuned like your Indy would tune it. Being the Factory is creating this map you know they will be very careful as to stay within compliance of the EPA standards.

Dealers don't recommend the stage one download when your using other brand exhaust and or air kits as they can have less back pressure, and more CFM's per air kit which would require different settings.

Obviously the stage one download is better than nothing being that our bikes are lean to begin with and adding these components only makes it leaner. So adding the download even if you have other exhaust and or an air kit will be beneficial in some small way. This is where some people simply choose a different path. The question is do I want to spend about $200 ($150 for download, 1/2 hr labor plus tax), and get a slight improvement, or would it make more sense to add that $200 to some other solution that can benefit the Bike greater?

Used to be we would add the $200 to the cost of a PCIII, or SERT. Spend another few hundred on top of that getting it dyno tuned. Or Spend $700 ~ $800 getting a T-Max or Daytona TT. Or spend less on a V&H Fuel pack, Cobra TI2000, or some other device that alters fuel and richens the bike.

The latest Testing up here is Nightriders O2 IED wires that only cost $69 and have been thoroughly tested by many a member with all exciting and quite positive results. Takes 10 minutes to install and significantly drops the engines temperature. Improves throttle response and makes the Bike run smoother. The only trade off is a loss of about 1 or 2 miles per gallon. You can read more about the IED's and members testing results here:
https://www.hdforums.com/m_2836828/tm.htm.

A lot of what you choose depends on what you want to do with the Bike in the future. I chose nightriders wires because all I wanted was to improve the sound (new mufflers) and I just wanted a bike that ran good overall. Not a racing machine (after all it's a Bagger), but just a comfortable Bike that ran good and smooth and had better throttle response. I have what I wanted. I blew a lot of money along the way buying some of these other devices that never lived up to expectations. I wasted money on Dyno Tunes. Then one day I put two wires on the Bike, removed the K&N Air Kit and went back to the stock air filter (to richen the bike up more), and slipped on a pair of Rush Mufflers (2 inch baffles). I was absolutely delighted in the overall performance of the bike. Number one issue of running too hot was solved and the Bike runs significantly cooler now. Throttle response is improved. The engine runs smoother while cruising. The best part was it only cost $69.

It's a no brainer, do you want to spend $200 on a download that will do a marginal improvement, or spend only $69 for a significant improvement?

Good Luck.

 

I really wish there was some consistency in what dealers tell people then I wouldn't be so confused most of the time.

Talking to my dealer yesterday about what I want added to the new bike and he says that I won't be happy with the SE Touring one piece slipons I wanted cause they're too quiet and I should go with the V&H Ovals. Says the HD download will be fine with the SE a/c and V&H slipons. I do intend to add the IED's (arrived this morning!) but they don't need to know about that. Guess I'll find out how it all works when I pick it up in a couple of weeks.

 

BCGuy, I've never heard the new SE slip ons, but I have read many a post up here where guys talk about them not being as loud as the older style SE's were. He's probably right about the V&H being louder.

Since your already getting the nightrider IED's, do yourself a favor and hold off on the SE air kit and just run it with the slip ons and IED's. You'll probably like the change enough to save your $$$ and cancel the air kit.

 

[sm=smiley32.gif] Very well said. [sm=smiley32.gif]

 

Hey I'm with you on the nightrider IED'S and will be ordering them soon,but I've already installed the SE slipons and may want the rest of the SE kit (AC&DOWNLOAD) later.I guess my main point is the download is designed to work best with H-D parts.There's no downside here ,more power and a cooler running motor.I appreciate all the time and effort you and everyone else put in testing the Nightrider parts.Thanks.

 

Hey cruiser, yeah that's what he said about the SE's - good performance but not much sound difference from stock. Recommended the V&H's for performance AND good sound so I figured "why not".

I appreciate the advice about skipping the a/c and download upgrade and I'm gonna think about that, fer sure. Thing is, any components the dealer adds at delivery time are warranted by them for the full 2 years, just like the bike so I figured to get it all done at the same time.

 

Rawhide, check out the S&S quick set up air kit. American Iron Magazine has a little write up on them in the April 08 issue. The Dyno charts show an increase of 10 HP with just the air kit. It also claims that the ECM will adjust itself and no downloads are needed. I think the second part is a Typo.

 

I saved this but can't find it on Nightrider.com's website


If you go back to the Fall 2006 Enthusiast Magazine published by Harley-Davidson, they stated that the new 96CID engines can have exhaust and air cleaner upgrades done without having to re-map the EFI system. Few Dealers, shops or riders ever picked up on this little piece of information. But it did not take riders long to realize the engine was very hot idleing and cruising (closed loop mode which is under 4000 RPMs and under 50% throttle). So knowing that the fuel map is rich enough for heavy throttle operation left me looking for a way to fix the very lean closed loop fuel ratio of 14.7:1 controlled by the narrow band O2 sensor. This lead me to develop the O2 IED (and the LC-1 WBO2 upgrade). The Nightrider upgrades are aimed specfically at the issues of the new engines controlled by HD's O2 sensor.

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/h...erformance.htm

 

Thanks Mikeurig