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Timing Issues....I think

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  #21  
Old 06-01-2006, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: Timing Issues....I think

I don't know if this will apply to the Bendix, but I have a hunch it might. The float valve is a 3-sided job and doesn't always fit as it should, which can lead to flooding. The MoCo sells a 4-sided replacement that fits the Keihin, and I think it will fit the Bendix, too. If so, try one when you rebuild the carb. I tried several of the old dtyle floats in my Keihin and always had problems after a time. Went to the ne valve, and haven't had a problem since.

Pinion, I adapted several carbs to the internal throttle; newer Bendix, Keihin butterfly, an old 38mm round slide Mikuni, and a flat slide Lectron. The Keihin and new Bendix were the easiest. I used the choke attachment instead of the throttle one on the carb as the choke was operated by a solid wire, just as the stock internal throttle. The others I used the stock cable, cut and tinned the other end and fastened it into the stock setup. My '87 Sloptail butterfly Keihin has a Pat Kennedy internal throttle that uses a cut & tinned standard cable that is fastened to the throttle with a setscrew.
 
  #22  
Old 06-01-2006, 09:42 PM
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Default RE: Timing Issues....I think

Thanks pococj for the tip. I will look into that. If I get the Bendix going the original throttle setup will go right on it using the old hard wire. The machine came with a Tillotson in 1971. The 38mm Mikuni I put on to replace the Tillotson was an old round slide type (no longer made) and I am currently using that in place of the Bendix.
I had to put a reverse throttle sleeve on the handlebar end when I put the Bendix on because I quickly found out that using the original I had a throttle that rolled forward to increase the speed. Of course that is not something that It wanted to adapt to.
I'm curious about the Kennedy tinned cable. Is the entire cable tinned, making it to be stiff enough to push and pull the butterfly back and forth on a Bendix? My round barrel Mikuni needs the cable to take a 90 degree turn as it heads down into the slide barrel, so I cannot see how how a stiff cable would work on this carb. The Mikuni has a strong spring though so all I need to do is 'pull' it to open the slide and that spring would return the slide to closed position. Again, interesting, and that gets me to thinking. Thanks.................piniongear
 
  #23  
Old 06-01-2006, 10:25 PM
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Default RE: Timing Issues....I think

Heya all,
Yeah the carb's now set, but, he found the reason it seemed to be jumping time (at least I wasn't going completely insane and forgot how to read a feeler guage). The cam bushings are shot. He's not sure if he can order just the bushings or not, so I may end up having to install a new cam...if that's the case, I'm having him button it back up, I'll install the new cam and bushings and then take it back to get retimed if I can't do it myself. ATM I just can't afford $250 - $400 to have a new cam put in (not including the cost of the parts), so I guess now I wait to see if he can get just the bushings and hope the cam itself is still good or start a hunt for a replacement cam. Any suggestions on brands/models for this bike?

Thanks again,

Wolf with the $4,500 nightmare machine

Edit:: Just found a bushing set on JPCycles for $99, is there a standard for all cams for those bikes, or only the stock cams? Also found bearings for $32. Jeez, I wish I knew more about these bikes than I do, I have the feeling I'm being fleeced due to my ignorance. Be so much easier if I was working on my truck that I built<g>
 
  #24  
Old 06-01-2006, 11:04 PM
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Default RE: Timing Issues....I think

Hey Wolf,
Something here does not add up, at least to me. You say you need new cam bushings? You mean bushings for the four camshafts? If so, that does not sound right. There are only two kinds of timing...ignition and camshaft (valve) timing. Cam bushings being worn have nothing to do with ignition timing. Worn camshaft bushings have nothing to do with cam (valve) timing either for that matter. Valve timing is set by aligning marks on the four camshaft gears that reside behind the timing cover. Once set, these stay in place unless the gears skip a tooth. This is for all purposes an impossibility.
If new camshaft bushings are needed, you will be faced with this situation:
These bushings are pressed into the timing cover and into the engine rightside crankcase. There are two on each of the four cams= 8 total. These must be pressed into place after removing the old ones. Four go into the crankcase and four go into the timing cover.
Then the timing cover is bolted in place without any of the cams and other internals installed and the bushings have to be line reamed with a reamer. You have to go in from the inside of the rightside crankcase with the reamer and ream to size to fit the shaft(s) diameter and this establishes a 'straight line bore' at the same time. This little operation requires that the entire engine be split wide open to access the case inside, all of which is no small undertaking.
Someone else who follows this thread want to weigh in here? Maybe I am missing something. Tell you what Wolf, if you would like some technical info I will be glad to PDF you some. Just drop me an email at wb_perry@yahoo.com and I will send it. I am unable to do so in this forum. Again, something does not add up here................piniongear

Let me amend this: I must have misunderstood your term for the 'cam'. You surely meant the cam for the ignition points. However the ignition cam has no bushings. It simply slides onto the advance assembly shaft.
 
  #25  
Old 06-01-2006, 11:38 PM
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Default RE: Timing Issues....I think


ORIGINAL: piniongear

Thanks pococj for the tip. I will look into that. If I get the Bendix going the original throttle setup will go right on it using the old hard wire. The machine came with a Tillotson in 1971. The 38mm Mikuni I put on to replace the Tillotson was an old round slide type (no longer made) and I am currently using that in place of the Bendix.
I had to put a reverse throttle sleeve on the handlebar end when I put the Bendix on because I quickly found out that using the original I had a throttle that rolled forward to increase the speed. Of course that is not something that It wanted to adapt to.
I'm curious about the Kennedy tinned cable. Is the entire cable tinned, making it to be stiff enough to push and pull the butterfly back and forth on a Bendix? My round barrel Mikuni needs the cable to take a 90 degree turn as it heads down into the slide barrel, so I cannot see how how a stiff cable would work on this carb. The Mikuni has a strong spring though so all I need to do is 'pull' it to open the slide and that spring would return the slide to closed position. Again, interesting, and that gets me to thinking. Thanks.................piniongear
The cable is a Barnett. I cut the end off and tinned just a short length where it slides into the Kennedy throttle and is held by a set screw. When I used a multi-strand cable with an internal throttle I'd install a weak spring on the carb to make sure it'd return, if the carb didn't have a spring on it already. I used a stock HD internal throttle with the stock Mikuni stranded cable adapted to it on the that 38 round slide Mikuni. That way it didn't matter if the cable had to make that sharp bend at the top of the carb. Used to get the solid wire for the stock internal setups from a lawn mower shop; cheaper than the "Hunnert Dollar" store!
 
  #26  
Old 06-01-2006, 11:51 PM
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Default RE: Timing Issues....I think

I saved your description of the cable setup if I decide to try it. Thanks pococj
 
  #27  
Old 06-02-2006, 12:49 AM
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Default RE: Timing Issues....I think

Ok, I *think* I can take back most of the bad things I've been thinking. The guy just called me back, he has access to the "bushing", but, for an extra $40 he'll replace the points system with an electronic system that'll work with my coil (I guess my coil is a 5 ohm and this system will work with anything higher than 3 ohm), so instead of sinking $280 into maybe making the points system work again I can get the whole shooting match for $320, which while more than I wanted to spend, at least I'll be able to out bombing around this summer. Then I can take the top end apart this off season and do what ever else needs to be done.

And yeah, the "bushing" it sounds like he was talking about was apparently for the timing cam as he said he could get "it" for 15 buck. So mebbe he was trying to sell me blinker fluid or a muffler bearing, but, alls I know is it sounds like my beast'll be up and running by tommorow night.

Thanks again to everyone for thier help and advice, it's much appreciated. Mebbe one of these days I'll actually know enough about these bikes to help someone else<g>

Wolf
 
  #28  
Old 06-03-2006, 12:54 AM
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Default RE: Timing Issues....I think

Got 'er back today, have to say, that electronic timing system is great.

Actually got to get out and cruise for a few hours, carb still needs a lil fine tuning, at highway speed it'll occasionally spit and dog down, but, guy told me that was liable to happen and which adjustment screw to turn out, so it's no big deal.

Thanks to all those who've responded and Pinion for those PDFs,

Wolf
 
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