Sumping Sorted
Off topic but my mate who has a SE Stage 4 kit fitted to his M8 just smashed his compensator with just over 1000 miles on it. Are TC compensators the same? Or you guys know what’s a decent M8 one available from?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,786
Likes: 7,941
From: poway
I come from a high performance car and Jap bike building back ground and this was my first HD build, I have gathered no information from anywhere I’m in no other forums and I’ll also note that I’m no qualified mechanic. In saying this I’m aiming for 150rwhp and pulling 75hp from 1 cylinder I didn’t think 41psi of oil pressure would be enough to keep rod bearings at the least oiled enough. She’s making just over 130rwhp now at 50% throttle with a 4750rpm blip so she should make what I’m aiming for. Increased RPMs with increases in load to bearings cylinders walls ect I didn’t think 41psi would hold up. I now am reading that although some guys are sticking to the oem pump they have increased pressure through the relief valve. Broke my leg last week but got a moon boot put on yesterday as soon as it stops pissing down rain I’ll pick her up to get a few miles on her before throwing some timing at her along with fuel and spinning her up to 8000rpm. Dunno how long she’ll last or what’s going to go bang first but she’ll be fun doing it.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,501
Likes: 437
From: Mandurah, West Oz
A multi-piece crank is inherently a worry - the main part that takes all the power and all the strain... in three parts? Not one single machined piece?
Last edited by OzHD; Oct 10, 2018 at 06:16 AM.
I owned a late 17 TC BO before purchasing my 18 and was going to build that and speaking to a few guys that owned pre 17 models a lot of them had oil pump issues and said I won’t need an oil pump because apperently they done some update on them? In Australia we don’t use or I personally haven’t heated the term sumping I have heard the term the oil pump **** itself or we cooked it cause the oil pump **** itself. A friend of mine had constant lifter issues and when he changed to an S&S on his 16 the lifter issue went away. I spoke to my tuner earlier today and he said he hasn’t seen an oil cooled M8 have oil issues only on 1 twin cooled model. Asked if I wasted $$ on the pump he said I could of gotten away with a modded relief valve and he opens up a gallery and has spun them to 8000rpm fairly reliably but it’s still early days. He did mention that you gain a minimum of 2rwhp uping the oil pressure and that becomes more of an increase depending on what other mods your running. I did find it extremely hard to find a pump for sale that someone had actual stock of so a lot of guys out there are buying them. Yeah apperently they are a 3 piece pressed crank, you can get them welded and rebalanced along with knife edging ect but I’m hoping she holds together for now or until more guys develop better profiled cams bigger bore kits ect and the price of parts come down. I went S&S rather than the Fueling option due to price and availability I don’t know which of the 2 are better
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,786
Likes: 7,941
From: poway
Aren't HD cranks a 3-piece pin connected design? They had problems with the pins being too small a few years ago and going out of whack, if my memory is working (some days.. doubtful)?
A multi-piece crank is inherently a worry - the main part that takes all the power and all the strain... in three parts? Not one single machined piece?
A multi-piece crank is inherently a worry - the main part that takes all the power and all the strain... in three parts? Not one single machined piece?
Thread Starter
|
Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 609
Likes: 159
From: Allover
Valentino Milwaukee
Had stage 111 on both subsequent T/ Cs and current M8 without further issues or reports.Obviously adopted the much improved units since Rushmore?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,786
Likes: 7,941
From: poway
I owned a late 17 TC BO before purchasing my 18 and was going to build that and speaking to a few guys that owned pre 17 models a lot of them had oil pump issues and said I won’t need an oil pump because apperently they done some update on them? In Australia we don’t use or I personally haven’t heated the term sumping I have heard the term the oil pump **** itself or we cooked it cause the oil pump **** itself. A friend of mine had constant lifter issues and when he changed to an S&S on his 16 the lifter issue went away. I spoke to my tuner earlier today and he said he hasn’t seen an oil cooled M8 have oil issues only on 1 twin cooled model. Asked if I wasted $$ on the pump he said I could of gotten away with a modded relief valve and he opens up a gallery and has spun them to 8000rpm fairly reliably but it’s still early days. He did mention that you gain a minimum of 2rwhp uping the oil pressure and that becomes more of an increase depending on what other mods your running. I did find it extremely hard to find a pump for sale that someone had actual stock of so a lot of guys out there are buying them. Yeah apperently they are a 3 piece pressed crank, you can get them welded and rebalanced along with knife edging ect but I’m hoping she holds together for now or until more guys develop better profiled cams bigger bore kits ect and the price of parts come down. I went S&S rather than the Fueling option due to price and availability I don’t know which of the 2 are better
So how does pump die? Either by eating something it didn't like or crank run out.. Whats an after market pump doing better? Stock oil pump TC pump will handle more run-out than a fueling.. With M8 pumps I can definitely see replacing the early ones as the seemed to have issues with the pressure relief valve. First couple changes seem to be related to that. For not an issue of oil pressure but scavenging. In fact feeding too much oil can cause scavenging issues and eat HP. Not sure how many times your tuner saw a 2 hp increase but if it was up on the top end rpms, simply readjusting the pushrods deeper into the lifters can keep them from collapsing and give that extra HP. Adding too much oil can take it away.. Don't weld the crank, it don't work. Plug it or go SnS 3 piece if you got a TC, Not sure when SnS will make wheels for M8s but I'd make sure they use the same crank-pin size or bigger on the M8s.
Roller bearings and extra oil pressure could make things worse especially with extra RPM on an engine that seems to may have a sumping issue. On the TC pre 17 apperently the pumps disintegrated from memory? Never seen it with my own eyes never had dramas with mine.
I’ll let you guys know when or if I have dramas. As for extending pushrods and turning your hyd lifter into a solid Iv seen YouTube clips of guys doing that and with so little oil pressure I guess it would work. A different tuner also suggested to do that on my mates bikesCars are the opposite as the increase oil pressure can cause lifters to pump up.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,786
Likes: 7,941
From: poway
I don’t know how often his seen it but will ask later today when I pick bike up.
Roller bearings and extra oil pressure could make things worse especially with extra RPM on an engine that seems to may have a sumping issue. On the TC pre 17 apperently the pumps disintegrated from memory? Never seen it with my own eyes never had dramas with mine.
I’ll let you guys know when or if I have dramas. As for extending pushrods and turning your hyd lifter into a solid Iv seen YouTube clips of guys doing that and with so little oil pressure I guess it would work. A different tuner also suggested to do that on my mates bikesCars are the opposite as the increase oil pressure can cause lifters to pump up.
Deepening the adjustment limits the amount they can collapse. Increasing oil pump pressure won't over pump the lifters. You do need about 15 psi to keep some from collapsing at idle. Only differences between car lifters and HD are bleed rate less and piddle valve to top end larger on HD. Both are due to lower oil pressures.