Lack of threads on Sumping these days. Issue fixed?
#101
11-06-2018, 03:50 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
, 10 oil pump designs
Pretty funny. Making things up as usual. 1000’s to 1? Really?? Reached pretty deep for that one. That would mean less than 250 M8s sumped over the past 3 model years. I don’t think so. They wouldn’t be publishing a SB that they’ve updated 5 times and redesigned the oil pump 10 times ... so far, for 250 bikes. If it was only 250 bikes (out of 240,000) we wouldn’t even know about it
I don’t know who you’re quoting but if you’re going to use quotes at least do some basic checking instead of making the quotes up. You won’t find a quote of mine where I say ”every” M8 sumps. I have said that If a bike will sump I can make it happen. I also believe MOST M8s can be made to show signs of sumping with riding that would not have caused sumping with a TC or other past HD engines.
If you have a problem with “my drivel”... well.. i guess that’s a problem for you to deal with. Get over it, use the ignore feature or continue to comment on my posts. All are fine by me so long as you behave yourself within the forum rules.
My guess is I can make most M8 bikes show signs of sumping. Just the reality of different riding styles. Even HD’s own Reg Reps try to pass the issue off as a “rider style” issue. If you ride your bike with shifting mostly between 2000 and 3500 rpms...you’re far less likely to generate sumping conditions. My guess is that the vast majority of guys rarely ride above 3500rpms. In fact most bikes barely get ridden at all. Just the nature of the hobby.
I have no idea how many M8s have sumped. But based on following the issue for 3 model years, the experience of my dealerships and several others, the fact that my HDF and CVO mailboxes are constantly full with guys that experience sumping but would rather not post, 10 oil pump redesigns, 5+ versions of SB1450.... sumping is more likely to be in the 3-7% range for those bike owners that report it. I suspect the incidence is FAR greater of those owners that don’t report it or are clueless what sumping is.
Pretty funny. Making things up as usual. 1000’s to 1? Really?? Reached pretty deep for that one. That would mean less than 250 M8s sumped over the past 3 model years. I don’t think so. They wouldn’t be publishing a SB that they’ve updated 5 times and redesigned the oil pump 10 times ... so far, for 250 bikes. If it was only 250 bikes (out of 240,000) we wouldn’t even know about it
I don’t know who you’re quoting but if you’re going to use quotes at least do some basic checking instead of making the quotes up. You won’t find a quote of mine where I say ”every” M8 sumps. I have said that If a bike will sump I can make it happen. I also believe MOST M8s can be made to show signs of sumping with riding that would not have caused sumping with a TC or other past HD engines.
If you have a problem with “my drivel”... well.. i guess that’s a problem for you to deal with. Get over it, use the ignore feature or continue to comment on my posts. All are fine by me so long as you behave yourself within the forum rules.
My guess is I can make most M8 bikes show signs of sumping. Just the reality of different riding styles. Even HD’s own Reg Reps try to pass the issue off as a “rider style” issue. If you ride your bike with shifting mostly between 2000 and 3500 rpms...you’re far less likely to generate sumping conditions. My guess is that the vast majority of guys rarely ride above 3500rpms. In fact most bikes barely get ridden at all. Just the nature of the hobby.
I have no idea how many M8s have sumped. But based on following the issue for 3 model years, the experience of my dealerships and several others, the fact that my HDF and CVO mailboxes are constantly full with guys that experience sumping but would rather not post, 10 oil pump redesigns, 5+ versions of SB1450.... sumping is more likely to be in the 3-7% range for those bike owners that report it. I suspect the incidence is FAR greater of those owners that don’t report it or are clueless what sumping is.
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STRADALE (11-06-2018)
#102
11-06-2018, 04:03 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Also, if everyone has to put you on ignore because your posts are ridiculous you're kinda doing it wrong. Forums that is. Might want to adjust fire. That tip is free. Next one will cost ya.
#103
11-06-2018, 04:04 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
In an attempt to provide some positive input here, I will say this:
- The oil pump redesigns were a feeble attempt by MoCo to address the sumping problem. Does it really matter how many redesigns were implemented? No. They didn't solve anything anyway.
- I have always believed that the scavenging side of the pump was losing prime due to blowby compression pressure being forced into the scavenging side of the pump through the crank bearing area.
- #2 is supported by the fact that SE Stage III & IV kits seemed to exacerbate the problem. Those kits and some stock cylinders were known to have cylinder out-of-round issues, thus causing excessive blowby. This is also supported by the fact that seemingly NONE of the aftermarket big-bore kits have seen any sumping.
- The new seal on the plate appears to be designed to keep that blowby from getting into the scavenging side of the oil pump by keeping that pressure on the sump side.
- The reasons above are why I argue that there is no way every M8 is susceptible to sumping; only those with defects that are inducing excessive blowby pressure into the sump.
- I ride a lot. I did 10.5K in my first year of ownership, all within a 250-mile radius of my home. I've met literally hundreds of M8 owners, none of which have reported sumping. Most didn't even know what it was.
The following users liked this post:
lp (11-06-2018)
#105
11-06-2018, 05:07 PM
I finally put the clown on ignore.....don't see his BS. PRETTY sure he is one of the boiler room dirt bags. Probably shorted HOG stock. Lmfao. Tooo many new 1 post wonders showed up after he started his whiney aZZ BS.
After stopping at over 35 dealerships from Vegas to Maine Couple rental fleets of over 250 and one with 600. NO STUMPERS. I have seen 3-4 creditable ones on here...... Run the ship out of mine now 15k. One trip was 2 day 1300 miles highway 65-90mph off the show room floor bike on highway every mile.I have checked it at least 5-6 times because I like to tinker. 2oz one time 11 oz another. 5 another 7 another. ( pure BS test) This clown doesn't get he bought from a shitty dealer who screwed up his motor with his must have stage kit....it blew up and than was patched 2 times. But he is famous and will never get any warranty work done up here in New England. Dealerships even gave him the name heatstroker....lmfao
No sumpers in 35 dealerships? Sounds like A LOT of time & effort polling that many people while on a ride & I guess it will depend on who you ask at those dealerships, most employed folks at dealerships aren’t forthcoming especially if they dont know you right but weird odds cause certain dealerships have come right out & said they’ve had a few in just one service department. Sounds like a lot of work for the MoCo too developing all these oil pump revisions if you can point to any random 35 dealerships (which is 5% of all dealerships in the USA) without a single bike that has sumped over 2-3 model years.
You’re running an S&S pump now?/ was that 11 oz w/ oem pump or w/ S&S? You also run a big bore kit? Haven’t heard of sumping issues w/ this combination which I think is a legit way of getting the best performance w/ the least amount of engine problem risk, sometimes it’s a better decision going aftermarket than keeping a warranty on a bike that didn’t have a true fix for what should be repaired correctly as a warranty issue or makes the problem worse w/ a Stage kit, I’d definitely consider going the same direction. Although hoping the newest seal/cover revision is finally an answer but who knows.
Normally you don’t think of “65-90 mph highway riding” as cornering hard or riding aggressive, that’s just cruising w/ traffic man! LoL!
Maine is terrific riding, been up there from Long Island NY multiple times, on our 10th anniversary took a ride up to Portland for Lobster, stopped in a Harley dealer for T-shirt souvenirs for the kids & ended up buying a CVO they had on the floor, totally unplanned anniversary gift to ourselves. We were on my Softail & my wife doesn’t ride so drove up again the following weekend to ride it home, really beautiful sunny July day that was too, good memory.
But on a side note & not trying to throw any shade, swear - - But if you’ve ignored the man, just do that & don’t post about him.....Cheers!
Last edited by STRADALE; 11-06-2018 at 05:39 PM.
#106
11-06-2018, 06:13 PM
These the dudes you had a video of watching oil spill out of your crankcase? If you think they were terrific maybe that's the problem. They sounded clueless.
Also, if everyone has to put you on ignore because your posts are ridiculous you're kinda doing it wrong. Forums that is. Might want to adjust fire. That tip is free. Next one will cost ya.
Also, if everyone has to put you on ignore because your posts are ridiculous you're kinda doing it wrong. Forums that is. Might want to adjust fire. That tip is free. Next one will cost ya.
Free tip back at you..... the “ignore” feature is free and easy to use. Try it out. It works the same way that little kids play peek-a-boo.... they cover their eyes and they think the person in front of them disappeared. Newsflash.... they are still there!
#107
11-06-2018, 06:23 PM
In an attempt to provide some positive input here, I will say this:
- The oil pump redesigns were a feeble attempt by MoCo to address the sumping problem. Does it really matter how many redesigns were implemented? No. They didn't solve anything anyway.
- I have always believed that the scavenging side of the pump was losing prime due to blowby compression pressure being forced into the scavenging side of the pump through the crank bearing area.
- #2 is supported by the fact that SE Stage III & IV kits seemed to exacerbate the problem. Those kits and some stock cylinders were known to have cylinder out-of-round issues, thus causing excessive blowby. This is also supported by the fact that seemingly NONE of the aftermarket big-bore kits have seen any sumping.
- The new seal on the plate appears to be designed to keep that blowby from getting into the scavenging side of the oil pump by keeping that pressure on the sump side.
- The reasons above are why I argue that there is no way every M8 is susceptible to sumping; only those with defects that are inducing excessive blowby pressure into the sump.
- I ride a lot. I did 10.5K in my first year of ownership, all within a 250-mile radius of my home. I've met literally hundreds of M8 owners, none of which have reported sumping. Most didn't even know what it was.
The engine was properly heat cycled and test ridden for about 30-40 miles before they turned it back over to me. The engine never even made it to the 1000 mile oil change service. It sumped at about 700-800 miles as I recall. Which leads back to the engine case as it was the only common denominator.
Last edited by Heatwave; 11-06-2018 at 07:54 PM.
#108
11-06-2018, 06:29 PM
#109
11-06-2018, 06:34 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Those guys at the dealership were dealing with boiling oil pouring out of a crankcase. They handled it well considering the smoke and the unexpected splashing boiling oil. Is there some reason you feel it necessary to trash some hard workers trying to do their job when sumping was mostly unknown as a serious M8 issue? That video was before HD had even published any SBs on the sumping issue.
I've never ignored anyone and to my knowledge no one has ever had to ignore me either. Says a bunch. Think about that real, real hard. You can do it. There is a connection there. Promise.
Last edited by lp; 11-06-2018 at 06:39 PM.
#110
11-06-2018, 06:53 PM
Complete amateurs. I always open hot fasteners on overheated engines containing nuclear hot fluids. Ask them to try it on a radiator next time. They will be amazed. Make sure you get it on video so we can see these pros in action.
I've never ignored anyone and to my knowledge no one has ever had to ignore me either. Says a bunch. Think about that real, real hard. You can do it. There is a connection there. Promise.
I've never ignored anyone and to my knowledge no one has ever had to ignore me either. Says a bunch. Think about that real, real hard. You can do it. There is a connection there. Promise.
. What you see with my posts is what you get. I’ve been posting on HDF for a decade. If you’re expecting any changes from me...... you’ll be waiting A LONG TIME! If my commentary doesn’t meet with your approval.... get over it, move on, ignore it, comment on it, whine about it, whatever suits you. Makes no difference to me. I’m not looking for your approval or anyone elses.My mailbox is absolutely full with guys that appreciate the insights I’ve shared about my sumping experience. Many of them have called me for advice. So putting up with a few fanboys wearing peek-a-boo blinders that have no personal experience with sumping doesn’t even rise to the level of annoyance. So flame away..... really makes no difference to me compared to the guys I can help out dealing with engine sumping.