Laid down my 2018 breakout 114
#71
I too have noticed the hesitation and touchiness of the TBW on my Fat Boy, and how it affects cornering. The lash of the more powerful shaft drive bikes can make cornering similarly challenging.
I could easily believe that the hesitation of the throttle combined with the sheer grunt of the M8 could get a new rider, or even an experienced one who is not paying close attention in a bad situation while cornering.
I could easily believe that the hesitation of the throttle combined with the sheer grunt of the M8 could get a new rider, or even an experienced one who is not paying close attention in a bad situation while cornering.
Last edited by iHodor; 09-17-2018 at 10:52 AM.
#72
I am sorry, but if I hear one more person preach about counter steering... Yes counter steering is real, but pretty much anytime you are riding over 10 mph, that is the only way a bike turns(other than expecting to turn well with weight transfer alone). It isn't like you have a choice of turning any other way. You can't say, "Well I turned the bars normally and crashed, if I had just countersteered I would have made it." Anybody who has ridden more than a few miles will have the concept of countersteering down, even if it is all in the subconscious. Your brain won't let you down.
Now if you want to talk about focusing on your exit in a turn, target fixation, trail braking, prebraking to set up chassis weight transfer, and yes, even dragging the rear brake to alter your line mid turn, emphasize "dragging" there, rolling on the throttle at the apex, emphasizing "rolling", or weighting the appropriate peg to increase traction then you may be teaching them something they don't know. But countersteering as an excuse for an accident really only applies when needing to dodge a sudden obstacle and choosing the appropriate way to push the bars. Countersteering to steer through a turn over 10 mph happens whether you consciously choose it or not. And it does not take very long for your brain to figure that out.
Now this sounds like a low side accident. So the traction of the rear tire was exceeded for conditions. 4 possible choices:
Hit rear brakes while tire was leaned over.
Hit throttle too hard while tire was leaned over.
Leaned too far and chassis hit ground unweighting the tire enough to loose traction
Road surface had debris limiting traction.
Maybe help them by focusing on those areas first.
Now if you want to talk about focusing on your exit in a turn, target fixation, trail braking, prebraking to set up chassis weight transfer, and yes, even dragging the rear brake to alter your line mid turn, emphasize "dragging" there, rolling on the throttle at the apex, emphasizing "rolling", or weighting the appropriate peg to increase traction then you may be teaching them something they don't know. But countersteering as an excuse for an accident really only applies when needing to dodge a sudden obstacle and choosing the appropriate way to push the bars. Countersteering to steer through a turn over 10 mph happens whether you consciously choose it or not. And it does not take very long for your brain to figure that out.
Now this sounds like a low side accident. So the traction of the rear tire was exceeded for conditions. 4 possible choices:
Hit rear brakes while tire was leaned over.
Hit throttle too hard while tire was leaned over.
Leaned too far and chassis hit ground unweighting the tire enough to loose traction
Road surface had debris limiting traction.
Maybe help them by focusing on those areas first.
Last edited by Bamjoop; 09-17-2018 at 10:30 AM.
#73
^I think it all fits in.
What helps me is to crack open the throttle and wait. In part, I'm waiting to see what my line looks like.
If I'm drifting to the inside, that's not too scary and almost anything I do to correct it isn't going to hurt much.
If I'm drifting to the outside, that is scary. Either means interaction with traffic headed your way, or going off into the dirt at an imprudent speed. The simplest answer I think is to leave the throttle constant and countersteer harder. Most of the time you'll make it, one way or another.
Because of the panic factor, I think it's helpful to have just one thing in mind. If you already have this idea in your head that you generally want to hold the throttle steady in turns, all you have to remember is a panic situation is "press." Keith Code goes into considerable detail about what's true and not true about that mindset, all I know is, it's kept me up right a couple of times.
To give an example, I dragged the crap out of something on my BMW (peg? valve cover?) lost traction in the back. I stayed with the turn, hooked back up and went on my way (meaning, pulled over and smoked about 20 cigarettes until my knees stopped shaking). If I had loaded up the front tire, I imagine things might have turned out differently
What helps me is to crack open the throttle and wait. In part, I'm waiting to see what my line looks like.
If I'm drifting to the inside, that's not too scary and almost anything I do to correct it isn't going to hurt much.
If I'm drifting to the outside, that is scary. Either means interaction with traffic headed your way, or going off into the dirt at an imprudent speed. The simplest answer I think is to leave the throttle constant and countersteer harder. Most of the time you'll make it, one way or another.
Because of the panic factor, I think it's helpful to have just one thing in mind. If you already have this idea in your head that you generally want to hold the throttle steady in turns, all you have to remember is a panic situation is "press." Keith Code goes into considerable detail about what's true and not true about that mindset, all I know is, it's kept me up right a couple of times.
To give an example, I dragged the crap out of something on my BMW (peg? valve cover?) lost traction in the back. I stayed with the turn, hooked back up and went on my way (meaning, pulled over and smoked about 20 cigarettes until my knees stopped shaking). If I had loaded up the front tire, I imagine things might have turned out differently
Last edited by AbqDave; 09-17-2018 at 03:01 PM.
#75
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#76
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#77
I'm glad you are OK but I'm sorry you laid it down with the bike so new. Man that sucks!!
If you were not going too fast for the corner and didn't have the brake on, then it had to be oil, sand, grease , or some other slick surface that you had no control over. Sometimes there is just nothing you can do.
I went down at 50 in a corner long ago and after that corners lost their fun. It was more of survival and watch out for the unexpected crap in the road.
I have since added a trike kit and took that unknown off the table. Now I blast through corners without that worry.
Good luck with getting your bike fixed.
If you were not going too fast for the corner and didn't have the brake on, then it had to be oil, sand, grease , or some other slick surface that you had no control over. Sometimes there is just nothing you can do.
I went down at 50 in a corner long ago and after that corners lost their fun. It was more of survival and watch out for the unexpected crap in the road.
I have since added a trike kit and took that unknown off the table. Now I blast through corners without that worry.
Good luck with getting your bike fixed.
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