Heritage Engine(?) noise
Heritage Engine(?) noise
Bike: 2007 Heritage Softail, TC96, completely stock
Mileage: Just over 13000
Lubricant: Amsoil MCV, all three since 5000 miles
Riding pattern: ~200 m/wk
Problem: Engine noise with rapping vibration
Conditions: Engine well warmed up, engine at speed well above lugging, under load
At about 11000 miles I started to notice a growling, "cluppering" type noise in the engine when it is completely warmed up. This symptom occurs when I'm near shifting speed and then twist the throttle some more, or I'm going up a grade at a fairly high rpm. Whatever puts more load on the engine seems to induce the symptom. I don't have a tach but I am well above lugging speed.
Lately the noise is much worse, doesnt require being warmed up, though it is still more prominent at higher temperatures, and I can feel it in my foot boards. It is as thought there is something loose and knocking around in the engine. It feels like the front cylinder head is loose and the cylinder is moving up and down half an inch, banging on both ends. Course, that is impossible, just a description. Another description would be a wobbling wheel banging on the inside of the case as it nutates.
If Im on a level surface or going down a grade I hear a steady but lighter knock, like a rod bearing. Im not sure if this is related to the main problem, or is a problem at all.
I took the bike to my local dealer and was surprised when they claimed that the engine sounded normal to them. I made sure that the mechanic rode the bike. I was told that the service manager rode it also.
I have done exhaustive searching on the internet for anyone else with a similar problem but found that most noise problems experienced by others were opposite from mine in that most of them were apparent when the bike was cold and went away when warm.
Thanks for any info.
Tom_07Heritage
Mileage: Just over 13000
Lubricant: Amsoil MCV, all three since 5000 miles
Riding pattern: ~200 m/wk
Problem: Engine noise with rapping vibration
Conditions: Engine well warmed up, engine at speed well above lugging, under load
At about 11000 miles I started to notice a growling, "cluppering" type noise in the engine when it is completely warmed up. This symptom occurs when I'm near shifting speed and then twist the throttle some more, or I'm going up a grade at a fairly high rpm. Whatever puts more load on the engine seems to induce the symptom. I don't have a tach but I am well above lugging speed.
Lately the noise is much worse, doesnt require being warmed up, though it is still more prominent at higher temperatures, and I can feel it in my foot boards. It is as thought there is something loose and knocking around in the engine. It feels like the front cylinder head is loose and the cylinder is moving up and down half an inch, banging on both ends. Course, that is impossible, just a description. Another description would be a wobbling wheel banging on the inside of the case as it nutates.
If Im on a level surface or going down a grade I hear a steady but lighter knock, like a rod bearing. Im not sure if this is related to the main problem, or is a problem at all.
I took the bike to my local dealer and was surprised when they claimed that the engine sounded normal to them. I made sure that the mechanic rode the bike. I was told that the service manager rode it also.
I have done exhaustive searching on the internet for anyone else with a similar problem but found that most noise problems experienced by others were opposite from mine in that most of them were apparent when the bike was cold and went away when warm.
Thanks for any info.
Tom_07Heritage
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 298
Likes: 0
From: Alden, NY
I agree. Get a second opinion. You might want to put a heavier synthetic lube in the transmission to see if the noise is from the tranny. If the noise appears to be from the right side, it might be related to the cam tensioners although with 13,000 miles I doubt that they would be worn out. Left side - maybe compensating sprocket is loose? In any event, if you have noticed that the engine or tranny noise has changed, it's probably not "normal".
Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 7
From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
You have two things going on. Both are from a loose compensator. Rotor is loose banging on the splines and the vibration is from the comp not stabilized with spring pressure. Get a new person to work on your bike. Dealer KGB attitude will deny everything unless it blows up in their face or falls off in their parking lot. Replace the comp with the newer SE big twin model and solve the problem once and for all. I have no use what so ever for that stock pos comp. Second source while rare could be a toasted balancer bearing. Stethoscope will identify that.
Ron
Ron
Last edited by rbabos; Feb 7, 2009 at 01:01 PM.
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,012
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
I had the same EXACT problem...and it was a lose compensator.
Compensator...compensator....compensator!!!
Pull your primary off and check it out...if you catch it early its an easy and cheap fix.
I remember when I first noticed the sound...dude I thought the bike was going to explode...it sounded like rocks bouncing around the cylinder walls. At times, it made a really nasty screaching sound too...it was no bueno.
Unfortunately for me, I didn't catch it as soon as I would have liked and had to replace the rotor. The vibrations destroyed the splines on it. Thankfully, the crank splines were ok.
I've posted a couple of pics of the compensator and the nutt you'll need to check for torque. The torque spec on that nut is 150ft pounds (if i remember correctly). Either way, it is a lot of torque, and should be very tight...no wiggle waggle in the assemply at all.
If it is the compensator and you decide to do the work yourself, PM me or let me know on this thread, there are some important steps you can take to make sure this doesn't happen again that I learned when I fixed mine.
Compensator...compensator....compensator!!!
Pull your primary off and check it out...if you catch it early its an easy and cheap fix.
I remember when I first noticed the sound...dude I thought the bike was going to explode...it sounded like rocks bouncing around the cylinder walls. At times, it made a really nasty screaching sound too...it was no bueno.
Unfortunately for me, I didn't catch it as soon as I would have liked and had to replace the rotor. The vibrations destroyed the splines on it. Thankfully, the crank splines were ok.
I've posted a couple of pics of the compensator and the nutt you'll need to check for torque. The torque spec on that nut is 150ft pounds (if i remember correctly). Either way, it is a lot of torque, and should be very tight...no wiggle waggle in the assemply at all.
If it is the compensator and you decide to do the work yourself, PM me or let me know on this thread, there are some important steps you can take to make sure this doesn't happen again that I learned when I fixed mine.
Last edited by JayDee5150; Feb 7, 2009 at 02:40 PM.
Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 7
From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
I had the same EXACT problem...and it was a lose compensator.
Compensator...compensator....compensator!!!
Pull your primary off and check it out...if you catch it early its an easy and cheap fix.
I remember when I first noticed the sound...dude I thought the bike was going to explode...it sounded like rocks bouncing around the cylinder walls. At times, it made a really nasty screaching sound too...it was no bueno.
Unfortunately for me, I didn't catch it as soon as I would have liked and had to replace the rotor. The vibrations destroyed the splines on it. Thankfully, the crank splines were ok.
I've posted a couple of pics of the compensator and the nutt you'll need to check for torque. The torque spec on that nut is 150ft pounds (if i remember correctly). Either way, it is a lot of torque, and should be very tight...no wiggle waggle in the assemply at all.
If it is the compensator and you decide to do the work yourself, PM me or let me know on this thread, there are some important steps you can take to make sure this doesn't happen again that I learned when I fixed mine.
Compensator...compensator....compensator!!!
Pull your primary off and check it out...if you catch it early its an easy and cheap fix.
I remember when I first noticed the sound...dude I thought the bike was going to explode...it sounded like rocks bouncing around the cylinder walls. At times, it made a really nasty screaching sound too...it was no bueno.
Unfortunately for me, I didn't catch it as soon as I would have liked and had to replace the rotor. The vibrations destroyed the splines on it. Thankfully, the crank splines were ok.
I've posted a couple of pics of the compensator and the nutt you'll need to check for torque. The torque spec on that nut is 150ft pounds (if i remember correctly). Either way, it is a lot of torque, and should be very tight...no wiggle waggle in the assemply at all.
If it is the compensator and you decide to do the work yourself, PM me or let me know on this thread, there are some important steps you can take to make sure this doesn't happen again that I learned when I fixed mine.
Ron
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,012
Likes: 1
From: SoCal
Quick Qestion...why is the compensator necessary? It just seems like something that really doesn't need to be there, just another item to go bad. I sort of get its purpose...isn't it to buffer the engine surge to the clutch to smooth it out?...and if that is the case, couldn't you control that with clutch pressure instead? Maybe a stronger clutch that you can slip without wearing it out in a month?
Basically, I guess I'm wondering if you can get away with eliminating it all together!
Last edited by JayDee5150; Feb 7, 2009 at 04:13 PM.
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Thanks to all.
I was leaning toward compensator myself.
I went for a ride yesterday for about two hours. It was a long stretch of hwy 11 near here so I didn't do too much braking. About two blocks from home I noticed that my rear brake pedal went all the way down with no effect! When I got home I saw smoke coming off of my rear caliper.
I guess I'll get back to the compensator problem when the brake problem is fixed, unless something else pops up.
Thanks again for the most helpful replies.
Tom
I was leaning toward compensator myself.
I went for a ride yesterday for about two hours. It was a long stretch of hwy 11 near here so I didn't do too much braking. About two blocks from home I noticed that my rear brake pedal went all the way down with no effect! When I got home I saw smoke coming off of my rear caliper.
I guess I'll get back to the compensator problem when the brake problem is fixed, unless something else pops up.
Thanks again for the most helpful replies.
Tom
Last edited by Tom_07Heritage; Feb 8, 2009 at 07:54 AM. Reason: Removed un-necessary comment.
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Banned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,706
Likes: 7
From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
Thanks Ron, I didn't realize the design changed.
Quick Qestion...why is the compensator necessary? It just seems like something that really doesn't need to be there, just another item to go bad. I sort of get its purpose...isn't it to buffer the engine surge to the clutch to smooth it out?...and if that is the case, couldn't you control that with clutch pressure instead? Maybe a stronger clutch that you can slip without wearing it out in a month?
Basically, I guess I'm wondering if you can get away with eliminating it all together!
Quick Qestion...why is the compensator necessary? It just seems like something that really doesn't need to be there, just another item to go bad. I sort of get its purpose...isn't it to buffer the engine surge to the clutch to smooth it out?...and if that is the case, couldn't you control that with clutch pressure instead? Maybe a stronger clutch that you can slip without wearing it out in a month?
Basically, I guess I'm wondering if you can get away with eliminating it all together!
I would sooner go compless on the 07 than use the original comp. Fortunately there is a better replacement for this model now. The SE big twin comp with the three stage spring pack takes care of starter bang, cruise pulses and adds cushion for high power settings. So far reports have been good on this one. Sorry, won't fit your bike, but you comp is better designed then the stock 07 anyway.
Ron
Last edited by rbabos; Feb 8, 2009 at 09:26 AM.
