Advice for 95 inch engine upgrades
Banned
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 202
Likes: 2
I went through the same decision as Ur going through last yr.
Theres some really good info above and Chaz has (been there done that) on the 95" and has given sound advice as usual.
Being a retired Maintance man I wanted to get it right the first time and not have to change later like U R now. So I studied & read a lot on bolt in cams last winter..no expert, but I did learn a lot.
What I havent seen yet is what RPM's do U spend most of U time and where do U want the TQ? Low-Mid, or Mid-high.
First thing U will have to do, is figure out where do U want it (TQ) to be.
Ur 211's are Mid-high rpm's cams a little dogie, low, without head work and a bump in comp. Strong probable after 3k, again not if U want low end.
The 204's are great cams for lighter bikes. Our dealer is putting the Andrews 4* advance gear on them and that moves the TQ left to where they will come on around 2700 rpm's. Still the TQ on a heavy bike is down a little under 2500rpm's.
My son put the 204's in his 07 Deuce and 09 NT, both with the 4* advance and he loves them, they sound bad at idle and a lighter bike there really crank it on..
The 203's is a bagger cam, which I needed on mine, but after My search I choose the 26's. they fit my needs. which may not even be close to Ur needs.
Here's a site that I found to be of great help in choosing my Cams hope its helps U.
WWW.bigboyzcycles.com/tccams.htm
Also this forum has two really good threads on dyno's. they have one in the touring section that has over 1k of dyno and build sheets and numbers..
Go to touring section and its a sticky thread on page 1 tittled
DYNO Numbers for Baggers
Then we have one in the Softail Model section and its also a sticky thread on page 1 in that section. tittled
DYNO Numbers for Softails
There are the sheets and Numbers of different builds of softail in there also.
This should help U get started on what to do!! and good picking.
Theres some really good info above and Chaz has (been there done that) on the 95" and has given sound advice as usual.
Being a retired Maintance man I wanted to get it right the first time and not have to change later like U R now. So I studied & read a lot on bolt in cams last winter..no expert, but I did learn a lot.
What I havent seen yet is what RPM's do U spend most of U time and where do U want the TQ? Low-Mid, or Mid-high.
First thing U will have to do, is figure out where do U want it (TQ) to be.
Ur 211's are Mid-high rpm's cams a little dogie, low, without head work and a bump in comp. Strong probable after 3k, again not if U want low end.
The 204's are great cams for lighter bikes. Our dealer is putting the Andrews 4* advance gear on them and that moves the TQ left to where they will come on around 2700 rpm's. Still the TQ on a heavy bike is down a little under 2500rpm's.
My son put the 204's in his 07 Deuce and 09 NT, both with the 4* advance and he loves them, they sound bad at idle and a lighter bike there really crank it on..
The 203's is a bagger cam, which I needed on mine, but after My search I choose the 26's. they fit my needs. which may not even be close to Ur needs.
Here's a site that I found to be of great help in choosing my Cams hope its helps U.
WWW.bigboyzcycles.com/tccams.htm
Also this forum has two really good threads on dyno's. they have one in the touring section that has over 1k of dyno and build sheets and numbers..
Go to touring section and its a sticky thread on page 1 tittled
DYNO Numbers for Baggers
Then we have one in the Softail Model section and its also a sticky thread on page 1 in that section. tittled
DYNO Numbers for Softails
There are the sheets and Numbers of different builds of softail in there also.
This should help U get started on what to do!! and good picking.
A. Streeting riding for pretty much EVERYBODY here who asks, should be looking for a cam that puts its best power down from low to midrange. Thats basically from about 2k-4500. Who here really ***** much higher past that. Some of the truely agressive riders like me, widen that powerband and looks for punch from about 2200k-6200k, but then if you want a real wide powerband like that, time to do headwork to put it simply and go with a real agressive cam with matching compression.
B. SE 204's description for a light bike is silly. Softails, dynas and touring bikes technically are ALL HEAVY cruisers. They all weigh north of 600lbs. SE 204's are actually good torque cams and put their best power down from the bottom and midrange. Why someone is even wasting their time retarding the cams 4 degrees is beyond me......wanting your power to come on so late is counterintuitive on a street ridden bike. Even when I drap mine, I still want it pulling hard a few hundred rpms sooner off the line.
Also, NOBODY SHOULD EVER degree their cams until AFTER they get a feel for the cam using the stock 0 degree outer cam woodruff key. And then go from there if the powerband absolutely needs to be shifted.
C. THe 204's are actually a much better cam for touring bikes than the 203 set. 203's are actually sluggish cams. They don't do anything particularly well other than providing a mild performance boost over stock cams.
What really matters on a cam, are the specs, the timing specs(intake closing spec is the most important) specifically combined with the overlap and LSA, NOT what a company necessarily puts down for a description. And The "Screamin eagle" catalogue is not a very good representative in description as to what their cams really do. More marketing BS than anything else.
R.I.P. BROTHER
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 6
From: Colorado Springs
Ummmm, "hand matched rings"????? LOL! Whats that supposed to mean, LOL!
You dont check and fit the ring end gap on that 160HP beast you pilot around?
Surely you didnt just slap the rings on the slugs, slip em' in the jug and start making that Buck Sixty worth of ponies now did ya?
Motor Builders 101:
NOTE - End gap on all compression rings is .012" to .030".
In certain instances, the next oversize ringset may be
supplied with pistons, ie. + .060" oversize rings with +.050"
pistons. This is permissible but end gaps must be filed.
Place end gaps on all compression rings as follows
In certain instances, the next oversize ringset may be
supplied with pistons, ie. + .060" oversize rings with +.050"
pistons. This is permissible but end gaps must be filed.
Place end gaps on all compression rings as follows
Last edited by Chazmanian; Jul 23, 2009 at 04:21 PM.
Banned
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 202
Likes: 2
You joking?
You dont check and fit the ring end gap on that 160HP beast you pilot around?
Surely you didnt just slap the rings on the slugs, slip em' in the jug and start making that Buck Sixty worth of ponies now did ya? Kinda like the cookie cutter builds at the local Harley dealership? Cept they dont have any compression and for damned sho' dont do 160/140 on any dyno. But yours did? Hmmmmm.....
Just when I was starting to like you Gunner I'm starting to doubt you at the same time. I was even gonna try out your cams but you make me bristle a bit......
You will need to go find a dyno sheet of that motor you talk so much sheet about or stop bringing it up all together.
In Essence. I'm calling absolute BS on that story until shown positively otherwise. First guy I ever saw with a 160HP and no dyno sheet? Pfffft Yeah right.
Motor Builders 101:
You dont check and fit the ring end gap on that 160HP beast you pilot around?
Surely you didnt just slap the rings on the slugs, slip em' in the jug and start making that Buck Sixty worth of ponies now did ya? Kinda like the cookie cutter builds at the local Harley dealership? Cept they dont have any compression and for damned sho' dont do 160/140 on any dyno. But yours did? Hmmmmm.....
Just when I was starting to like you Gunner I'm starting to doubt you at the same time. I was even gonna try out your cams but you make me bristle a bit......
You will need to go find a dyno sheet of that motor you talk so much sheet about or stop bringing it up all together.
In Essence. I'm calling absolute BS on that story until shown positively otherwise. First guy I ever saw with a 160HP and no dyno sheet? Pfffft Yeah right.
Motor Builders 101:
NOTE - End gap on all compression rings is .012" to .030".
In certain instances, the next oversize ringset may be
supplied with pistons, ie. + .060" oversize rings with +.050"
pistons. This is permissible but end gaps must be filed.
In certain instances, the next oversize ringset may be
supplied with pistons, ie. + .060" oversize rings with +.050"
pistons. This is permissible but end gaps must be filed.
Place end gaps on all compression rings as follows
Um, of course I correct gap all my rings, in fact I have an expensive electric filer which gives me perfect set gaps everytime with perfect 90 degree butt ends, but this isn't called "hand matched rings" LOL! You make it sound like you have some secret go fast goodie under the tins there pardner........correctly gapped rings are required for all builds.
As for my dyno, go talk to Reg. Sr. at RR cycles. Ask about Andy's All blue NT and what it pulled on his machine. Or better yet, since you said your local to me, swing by, put up pink slips(or some cash to potentially pay my speeding ticket) and see how quickly I lose you in my mirrors on the highway.
I'm guessing you will be quite a large distance behind me within just a couple hundred yards, LOL.
Last edited by GunmetalBlueNT; Jul 23, 2009 at 04:27 PM.
R.I.P. BROTHER
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 6
From: Colorado Springs
OK....I almost like you again. So I edited my post. You make me doubt you a bit tho.....
But pray tell where did I ever post "Custom Matched Rings". You qouted my hand matched rings comment. I said hand matched rings. Common verbage amongst those who build motors....Cept of course you and the yahoo's that slap those crap 95" and 103" cookie cutter builds together at the local dealership.
Even if the statement were placed as "Custom matched rings" why pray tell would you and your "Expensive" filer question that comment?
Post the sheet Gunnie. Stop running game Homie.
But pray tell where did I ever post "Custom Matched Rings". You qouted my hand matched rings comment. I said hand matched rings. Common verbage amongst those who build motors....Cept of course you and the yahoo's that slap those crap 95" and 103" cookie cutter builds together at the local dealership.
Even if the statement were placed as "Custom matched rings" why pray tell would you and your "Expensive" filer question that comment?
Post the sheet Gunnie. Stop running game Homie.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
those stg 2 t-man heads are real nice.
put a tw6 woods cam in there and with those heads you will see a very good performance gain. right in the power range where you ride.
G
Chaz i didnt know ya had to gap the rings i thought they came pre gapped. i guess thats why i am only at 140 hp/tq.
g
put a tw6 woods cam in there and with those heads you will see a very good performance gain. right in the power range where you ride.
G
Chaz i didnt know ya had to gap the rings i thought they came pre gapped. i guess thats why i am only at 140 hp/tq.
g
Banned
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 202
Likes: 2
OK....I almost like you again. So I edited my post. You make me doubt you a bit tho.....
But pray tell where did I ever post "Custom Matched Rings". You qouted my hand matched rings comment. I said hand matched rings. Common verbage amongst those who build motors....Cept of course you and the yahoo's that slap those crap 95" and 103" cookie cutter builds together at the local dealership.
Even if the statement were placed as "Custom matched rings" why pray tell would you and your "Expensive" filer question that comment?
Post the sheet Gunnie. Stop running game Homie.
But pray tell where did I ever post "Custom Matched Rings". You qouted my hand matched rings comment. I said hand matched rings. Common verbage amongst those who build motors....Cept of course you and the yahoo's that slap those crap 95" and 103" cookie cutter builds together at the local dealership.
Even if the statement were placed as "Custom matched rings" why pray tell would you and your "Expensive" filer question that comment?
Post the sheet Gunnie. Stop running game Homie.
Last edited by GunmetalBlueNT; Jul 23, 2009 at 04:35 PM.
R.I.P. BROTHER
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 6
From: Colorado Springs
those stg 2 t-man heads are real nice.
put a tw6 woods cam in there and with those heads you will see a very good performance gain. right in the power range where you ride.
G
Chaz i didnt know ya had to gap the rings i thought they came pre gapped. i guess thats why i am only at 140 hp/tq.
g
put a tw6 woods cam in there and with those heads you will see a very good performance gain. right in the power range where you ride.
G
Chaz i didnt know ya had to gap the rings i thought they came pre gapped. i guess thats why i am only at 140 hp/tq.
g
Qouted from you Sir:
my heads were off the shelf Baisley pro streets
my cylinders and pistons were off the eshelf from axtell
my T/B was off the shelf from HP inc
my Crank was from S&S and totally re-worked from Hoban.
its the Combo of Parts from A REPUTABLE company such as Baisley , Hillside... or
then have a world class engine Builder and Tuner such as Dave from JD's cycleworks put it together and thats the real world diffrence.
my cylinders and pistons were off the eshelf from axtell
my T/B was off the shelf from HP inc
my Crank was from S&S and totally re-worked from Hoban.
its the Combo of Parts from A REPUTABLE company such as Baisley , Hillside... or
then have a world class engine Builder and Tuner such as Dave from JD's cycleworks put it together and thats the real world diffrence.
Betcha he disagree with you. Mr Visa card customer.
I feel like I have landed in Spaztic Dyno queen braggert land.
Fvck this thread.
Later Gents.
Last edited by Chazmanian; Jul 23, 2009 at 04:47 PM.
R.I.P. BROTHER
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 6
From: Colorado Springs
Hand matched, custom matched, again your making it sound like you did something "special" to get your power, LOL, I dont know of anyone who gains tons of power from "custom matched rings", LOL. I do know of builds that actually RUN without burning oil though with CORRECTLY gapped rings.
If you did you would be wholly aware of the ring end gap issues with some of these dealer built cookie cutter 95"s and 103"s slapped together from some MMI kid with peach fuzz on his lip and a service manual in his back pocket.
I dont recall ever bragging about making some huge power or compression gain via insuring the ring end gap was correct.
You began by questioning the comment I made which was "Hand matched rings". Now I dunno about you I would say a correctly built motor would have the ring end gap fairly high on the priority list.
Oh yeah you must think so as well or you wouldnt have bought that "Expensive" Electric filer to insure perfection on every build?
I'm done with you Bro and have nada to gain or learn from any future exchanges with you Sir. Zilch.
Best of luck Gunny.
To me? You arent even here anymore Dude.
Thanks.
Last edited by Chazmanian; Jul 23, 2009 at 05:00 PM.
R.I.P. BROTHER
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,076
Likes: 6
From: Colorado Springs
I know my bad. SuperAchmed got under my skin a bit with his smarty *** BS talk.
I apologize for posting at that level SE.
It wont happen again.
I apologize for posting at that level SE.
It wont happen again.