Good tuner
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
I never said the TT was a gimmick. What I said was I had and still have a PV, and on my 107 build the base map I got from FM was not that close. The evidence was the amount of AT runs I had to do. On top of that I was getting some decel pop and a high amount of knock retard at certain RPM's and loads. To fix this I manually had to adjust the timing and VE tables, the TT (was autotune) wouldn't fix these. It would get it close but not all the way. A Dyno tune will get this right typically the first time.
I also NEVER said Other tuners can do a better job than FM does tuning performance builds. Show me where I said that?? Man you guys that are diehard FM supporters really get your panties in a wad when someone has a different opinion.
I think FM does a great job and more power to them, but that was not the intent of this thread, it was a tuner with TT or Dyno for a 107 build.
To answer the other question, yes components vary, first 2 would be the exhaust and the AC.
I also NEVER said Other tuners can do a better job than FM does tuning performance builds. Show me where I said that?? Man you guys that are diehard FM supporters really get your panties in a wad when someone has a different opinion.
I think FM does a great job and more power to them, but that was not the intent of this thread, it was a tuner with TT or Dyno for a 107 build.
To answer the other question, yes components vary, first 2 would be the exhaust and the AC.
My gimmick comment wasn't directed at you at all, it was simply directed at the fact that a real time tuning systems like the TTS and now the PV with TT Pro, provide the very similar capability and especially if you've got a excellent basemap to start with. (I know your's wasn't that way)
Finding a real pro Dyno tuner is great but they're not on every street corner. I was just suggesting there's a alternative now. "Gotta do a Dyno Tune" is changing now that there are strong products, that do dynamic, real time, adaptive wide band tuning and if your buying the kit from FM anyway, it's my belief that a very close PV base map, comes as part of that package. As well as the strong follow-on service FM provides to assist with any necessary adjustments. Adding the TT Pro is an potential alternative to the old Dynotune process with various results dependent upon the expertise of the tuner.
I'll shut up now.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,425
Likes: 1,418
From: pensacola fl
This is in response to a few posts, not just this one from Bowhunter:
Assuming the build has a standard set of components that have had many previous builds of the same components, and continuous map refinement over those multiple builds, unless there is something significantly different with a particular build, the base map is going to be very close.
Target tune, and it's Bosch wide band sensors will continue to dial that base map in continuously through the early break in period and over time and environmental changes.
Unless the argument is that:
1. the WB Bosch are not as accurate as the various Dyno's
2. that each FM 107 kit is significantly different than another with the same components
3. Other tuners can do a better job than FM does tuning performance builds.
If you think the TT is a gimmick or not a quality product you probably haven't got any experience with it. Maybe FuelMoto will correct me, but I still think this is a valid strategy. Just make sure your build has the identical components of one of their very common standard builds. Intake, TB/jets/heads/exhaust/tune. Take it to a dyno shop after doing a couple hundred miles to get a chart for bragging rights and verify the results.
Unless the starting equipment is a different tuner, or some component of the engine is a different component, or some piece of a Dyno tune is significantly more accurate that the TT, what is it?
Assuming the build has a standard set of components that have had many previous builds of the same components, and continuous map refinement over those multiple builds, unless there is something significantly different with a particular build, the base map is going to be very close.
Target tune, and it's Bosch wide band sensors will continue to dial that base map in continuously through the early break in period and over time and environmental changes.
Unless the argument is that:
1. the WB Bosch are not as accurate as the various Dyno's
2. that each FM 107 kit is significantly different than another with the same components
3. Other tuners can do a better job than FM does tuning performance builds.
If you think the TT is a gimmick or not a quality product you probably haven't got any experience with it. Maybe FuelMoto will correct me, but I still think this is a valid strategy. Just make sure your build has the identical components of one of their very common standard builds. Intake, TB/jets/heads/exhaust/tune. Take it to a dyno shop after doing a couple hundred miles to get a chart for bragging rights and verify the results.
Unless the starting equipment is a different tuner, or some component of the engine is a different component, or some piece of a Dyno tune is significantly more accurate that the TT, what is it?
Second, I would not want to "Make Sure' My build has the identical components of one of their common builds, just so I could use TT. I have a very competent tuner that is close to me.
If this TT is "That Good", why does FM dyno tune the bikes they build? Why not just send it out the door with the TT?
This was never about FM. This is/was about spending hard earned money building a motor and then not finishing the deal with a proper dyno tune.
IF, there is not a competent tuner/dyno shop available, then TT or a Tmax would be the best option. However the OP Does have a competent shop available.
His bike his build. His choice
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 267
Likes: 94
From: va
You all rock. Let me start with that. The conversation I had with fuel moto, was the reason I asked this question. The rep I was talking to, pretty much said a dyno tune is a must. These guys have more experience then I ever will. They say I need to get a tune for this all to be right, I say ok. Like I was saying, they have a ton of experience and they make the kit and install them. I feel it would be foolish for me not to heed their advice.
I do own a fuel pak3, but it will be swapped out with a power vision. Fuel pak3 was good for the basic stages but I will say, I was completely disappointed with the autotune function on it. It almost made me lay down the bike. For some reason it would cause the bike to sputter and blow air out the intake then stall. Well you all know how heavy a full bagger is when it stalls and the handle bars are turned. Soon as you take it out of autotune it stoped and bike ran better.
I do appreciate all the feed back. Fredricksburg really isnt that bad of a drive to. I will just have to make sure they can do it that , since do I g a round trip 2 times would kind of stink lol.
Once again thanks for all the help.
I do own a fuel pak3, but it will be swapped out with a power vision. Fuel pak3 was good for the basic stages but I will say, I was completely disappointed with the autotune function on it. It almost made me lay down the bike. For some reason it would cause the bike to sputter and blow air out the intake then stall. Well you all know how heavy a full bagger is when it stalls and the handle bars are turned. Soon as you take it out of autotune it stoped and bike ran better.
I do appreciate all the feed back. Fredricksburg really isnt that bad of a drive to. I will just have to make sure they can do it that , since do I g a round trip 2 times would kind of stink lol.
Once again thanks for all the help.
Road Master
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 779
Likes: 44
From: Fredericksburg, VA
Chrome with Black Tips...
Let me know... Im in Fredericksburg and can deliver them to your tuner for installation if you do it down here...
Im looking for $500... They only have 2000 miles on them...
https://www.rinehartracing.com/shop/classic-duals/
Let me know... Im in Fredericksburg and can deliver them to your tuner for installation if you do it down here...
Im looking for $500... They only have 2000 miles on them...
https://www.rinehartracing.com/shop/classic-duals/
Last edited by rgrecco; Jan 31, 2018 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Add url to pipes
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 267
Likes: 94
From: va
Chrome with Black Tips...
Let me know... Im in Fredericksburg and can deliver them to your tuner for installation if you do it down here...
Im looking for $500... They only have 2000 miles on them...
https://www.rinehartracing.com/shop/classic-duals/
Let me know... Im in Fredericksburg and can deliver them to your tuner for installation if you do it down here...
Im looking for $500... They only have 2000 miles on them...
https://www.rinehartracing.com/shop/classic-duals/
Try to keep me in mind though when sprung summer gets here. Maybe we can meet up and do a little riding. Show me the cool spots. First beer on me!
Last edited by Toner123; Jan 31, 2018 at 07:43 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,419
Likes: 974
From: Northern VA
A bit off topic and I apologize to the OP but the location sparked my interest. I live in Bristow and I am planning to have stage 2 done this spring so the recommendations of wide open cycle are intriguing.
I am am fairly new to motorcycles (and not very mechanical at all). If I do a stage 2, am I correct to assume that I can use my PV with a map from FM (bought tuner there) to tune until I can save another $4-500 to throw at a Dyno tune?
Thanks in advance for any replies received.
I am am fairly new to motorcycles (and not very mechanical at all). If I do a stage 2, am I correct to assume that I can use my PV with a map from FM (bought tuner there) to tune until I can save another $4-500 to throw at a Dyno tune?
Thanks in advance for any replies received.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 267
Likes: 94
From: va
A bit off topic and I apologize to the OP but the location sparked my interest. I live in Bristow and I am planning to have stage 2 done this spring so the recommendations of wide open cycle are intriguing.
I am am fairly new to motorcycles (and not very mechanical at all). If I do a stage 2, am I correct to assume that I can use my PV with a map from FM (bought tuner there) to tune until I can save another $4-500 to throw at a Dyno tune?
Thanks in advance for any replies received.
I am am fairly new to motorcycles (and not very mechanical at all). If I do a stage 2, am I correct to assume that I can use my PV with a map from FM (bought tuner there) to tune until I can save another $4-500 to throw at a Dyno tune?
Thanks in advance for any replies received.
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 1,419
Likes: 974
From: Northern VA
Np brother. For stage 2 a canned map should be sufficient enough in my opinion. I have 2 Harleys now with stage 2 and both are on a canned map with a little auto tuning done. Yes a true dyno tune will give better results but depending on your setup a canned map will get you pretty damn close with the bike being safe