Starting Issue...Need Help
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
From: Bristow, VA
Starting Issue...Need Help
All,
Thanks in advance for the help and info.
For the past couple of months, I've had an issue starting my bike when it's hot. The issue usually happens when I stop for a very short period of time...like getting gas.
When I push the starter, the engine sounds like it gets 3/4 to 1 turn and then stops...usually sounds like a "clank". I have to push the starter again, and it always starts up after that.
Never has happened when the bike is cold, or has been sitting for a while after a stop (like getting something to eat on the road).
Now, I can't remember (but I'll take note from here on) if it was in neutral or if I was pulling in the clutch lever during start. Also, I've attempted starting giving the fuel time to prime and without giving it time (as soon as the ignition is on, I start the bike).
Thanks for any insight! I'm not too worried, but one of those things I would like to know before it becomes an issue.
Skippy
Thanks in advance for the help and info.
For the past couple of months, I've had an issue starting my bike when it's hot. The issue usually happens when I stop for a very short period of time...like getting gas.
When I push the starter, the engine sounds like it gets 3/4 to 1 turn and then stops...usually sounds like a "clank". I have to push the starter again, and it always starts up after that.
Never has happened when the bike is cold, or has been sitting for a while after a stop (like getting something to eat on the road).
Now, I can't remember (but I'll take note from here on) if it was in neutral or if I was pulling in the clutch lever during start. Also, I've attempted starting giving the fuel time to prime and without giving it time (as soon as the ignition is on, I start the bike).
Thanks for any insight! I'm not too worried, but one of those things I would like to know before it becomes an issue.
Skippy
Road Captain
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 510
Likes: 12
From: Arizona
Try this: Shut down with the Run switch first, then the Ignition switch. When you start it, turn on the Ignition switch, then crank the motor immediately after turning on the Run switch on the handlebar, don't wait for the fuel pump to cycle. The objective here is to crank right away after turning the Run switch on.
This will probably help, lol
This will probably help, lol
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
1.) it is not uncommon to have trouble with hot starts- heat creates resistance in circuits and our starters are right where it gets hot.
and the resistance in the circuit creates heat in the starter and cables.
take the time to loosen, clean and retighten teh battery cables- both cables, both ends. if you disconnect the negative cable at the battery first, and reconnect it last- you will not shoot any sparks.
2.) when the motor is hot the pistons and rings have expanded to create a nice tight fit in the cylinder.
AND when the ignition is turned off the motor always stops rotating on the compression stroke ( hot or cold...always).
so when you hit the starter, it is working against the highest point of compression in teh motor.
I turn on the ignition, wait for the fuel pump to pressurize, then flick teh start button.
this will cause the piston to either push over top dead center, or rebound back down the cylinder.
Either way when i next press the starter, it has a bit of a run to build momentum before hitting compression stroke again.
the start up instructions in the previous post seem to work well for riders with power commanders tuners, due to the way in which they are powered by the motorcycle.
I would not suggest shutting down the motor with the "kill switch", it has been shown that this can result in throttle position/idle errors on the TBW bikes. Better to shut down by turning the ignition switch with your right hand.
This keeps the ECM from storing false data on the zero position
mike
and the resistance in the circuit creates heat in the starter and cables.
take the time to loosen, clean and retighten teh battery cables- both cables, both ends. if you disconnect the negative cable at the battery first, and reconnect it last- you will not shoot any sparks.
2.) when the motor is hot the pistons and rings have expanded to create a nice tight fit in the cylinder.
AND when the ignition is turned off the motor always stops rotating on the compression stroke ( hot or cold...always).
so when you hit the starter, it is working against the highest point of compression in teh motor.
I turn on the ignition, wait for the fuel pump to pressurize, then flick teh start button.
this will cause the piston to either push over top dead center, or rebound back down the cylinder.
Either way when i next press the starter, it has a bit of a run to build momentum before hitting compression stroke again.
the start up instructions in the previous post seem to work well for riders with power commanders tuners, due to the way in which they are powered by the motorcycle.
I would not suggest shutting down the motor with the "kill switch", it has been shown that this can result in throttle position/idle errors on the TBW bikes. Better to shut down by turning the ignition switch with your right hand.
This keeps the ECM from storing false data on the zero position
mike
Last edited by mkguitar; May 27, 2013 at 08:52 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
From: Bristow, VA
1.) it is not uncommon to have trouble with hot starts- heat creates resistance in circuits and our starters are right where it gets hot.
and the resistance in the circuit creates heat in the starter and cables.
take the time to loosen, clean and retighten teh battery cables- both cables, both ends. if you disconnect the negative cable at the battery first, and reconnect it last- you will not shoot any sparks.
2.) when the motor is hot the pistons and rings have expanded to create a nice tight fit in the cylinder.
AND when the ignition is turned off the motor always stops rotating on the compression stroke ( hot or cold...always).
so when you hit the starter, it is working against the highest point of compression in teh motor.
I turn on the ignition, wait for the fuel pump to pressurize, then flick teh start button.
this will cause the piston to either push over top dead center, or rebound back down the cylinder.
Either way when i next press the starter, it has a bit of a run to build momentum before hitting compression stroke again.
the start up instructions in the previous post seem to work well for riders with power commanders tuners, due to the way in which they are powered by the motorcycle.
I would not suggest shutting down the motor with the "kill switch", it has been shown that this can result in throttle position/idle errors on the TBW bikes. Better to shut down by turning the ignition switch with your right hand.
This keeps the ECM from storing false data on the zero position
mike
and the resistance in the circuit creates heat in the starter and cables.
take the time to loosen, clean and retighten teh battery cables- both cables, both ends. if you disconnect the negative cable at the battery first, and reconnect it last- you will not shoot any sparks.
2.) when the motor is hot the pistons and rings have expanded to create a nice tight fit in the cylinder.
AND when the ignition is turned off the motor always stops rotating on the compression stroke ( hot or cold...always).
so when you hit the starter, it is working against the highest point of compression in teh motor.
I turn on the ignition, wait for the fuel pump to pressurize, then flick teh start button.
this will cause the piston to either push over top dead center, or rebound back down the cylinder.
Either way when i next press the starter, it has a bit of a run to build momentum before hitting compression stroke again.
the start up instructions in the previous post seem to work well for riders with power commanders tuners, due to the way in which they are powered by the motorcycle.
I would not suggest shutting down the motor with the "kill switch", it has been shown that this can result in throttle position/idle errors on the TBW bikes. Better to shut down by turning the ignition switch with your right hand.
This keeps the ECM from storing false data on the zero position
mike
Thanks for the confirmation! Did I miss this in the manual? They ought to put stuff like this if it's not.
Thanks again!
Skippy
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Same issue
I have exactly the same issue on my 09 Streetglide. These are the first answers I have seen where the instant reply was not "compensator". I tend to believe it is NOT a compensator issue. I have over 25000 miles on mine now and it does it when hot only, short stops like a gas and go. Never when she has time to cool off a bit and never in cold weather. I use mine as a daily commuter across Houston so I have lots of opportunity for getting hot when the weather turns. Not sure what causes it myself since I first though "change battery" and that didn't help . No noises at any other time to indicate the dreaded compensator issue,I tend to agree with the earlier replys. These are fair size motors, run hot and tight and don't have much umph to turn the starter against all that compression. I wonder if the problem is more prominent with the 103s, 110s, etc. I always turn off with kill switch, then ignition, turn on ignition, kill switch, always in neutral and always with clutch in when I hit the starter and always let the fuel pump finish priming. I think I will try some of these other methods recommended. It is irritating but nothing has broken yet. If anyone ever discovers the secret please pass it on.
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
From: Bristow, VA
I have exactly the same issue on my 09 Streetglide. These are the first answers I have seen where the instant reply was not "compensator". I tend to believe it is NOT a compensator issue. I have over 25000 miles on mine now and it does it when hot only, short stops like a gas and go. Never when she has time to cool off a bit and never in cold weather. I use mine as a daily commuter across Houston so I have lots of opportunity for getting hot when the weather turns. Not sure what causes it myself since I first though "change battery" and that didn't help . No noises at any other time to indicate the dreaded compensator issue,I tend to agree with the earlier replys. These are fair size motors, run hot and tight and don't have much umph to turn the starter against all that compression. I wonder if the problem is more prominent with the 103s, 110s, etc. I always turn off with kill switch, then ignition, turn on ignition, kill switch, always in neutral and always with clutch in when I hit the starter and always let the fuel pump finish priming. I think I will try some of these other methods recommended. It is irritating but nothing has broken yet. If anyone ever discovers the secret please pass it on.
I have a buddy who thinks the rod that comes out from the starter and engages the clutch is either hitting the clutch and not turning (hence the clank noise), or the teeth on the end of that rod are getting worn down and not engaging the clutch well. Neither issue is a bad problem, until that rod loses the ability to slide into and engage the clutch. At that point, the replacement of the rod (or replacement of the starter) requires a complete removal of primary and clutch package to replace that starter.
In any case, yeah, if anyone knows please post!
Thanks again,
Skippy
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
Likes: 402
From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
Um, clean and tighten cables connections first
load test battery second...( auto zone does it free)
at this point ZERO EXPENSE.
rather than throwing new parts at an old problem.
Diagnosis is key to correct repair.
anyone can just "replace parts"...the saddest of all things is when the $500 new part gets put on replacing a perfectly good part...and in the process the cable connections are cleaned and tightened- that being the "fix"
do the free stuff- after that if you don;t have the experience to trouble shoot yourself, think about a Pro.
What your Pal is referring to is the "starter clutch"- often called a "Bendix".
the gear on the starter clutch turns the gear on the clutch to turn the primary drive and the motor to start.
The starter clutch gear should be a softer metal than the clutch ring gear, so that if the alignment is screwy- the less expensive, easy to change part breaks...not the expensive part which is hard to get at
on most models the primary and clutch stay in place when the starter is serviced
on some models it is possible to activate the starter while working inside the primary...which can pluck off fingers. ALWAYS disconnect the battery if going inside the primary
Mike
load test battery second...( auto zone does it free)
at this point ZERO EXPENSE.
rather than throwing new parts at an old problem.
Diagnosis is key to correct repair.
anyone can just "replace parts"...the saddest of all things is when the $500 new part gets put on replacing a perfectly good part...and in the process the cable connections are cleaned and tightened- that being the "fix"
do the free stuff- after that if you don;t have the experience to trouble shoot yourself, think about a Pro.
What your Pal is referring to is the "starter clutch"- often called a "Bendix".
the gear on the starter clutch turns the gear on the clutch to turn the primary drive and the motor to start.
The starter clutch gear should be a softer metal than the clutch ring gear, so that if the alignment is screwy- the less expensive, easy to change part breaks...not the expensive part which is hard to get at
on most models the primary and clutch stay in place when the starter is serviced
on some models it is possible to activate the starter while working inside the primary...which can pluck off fingers. ALWAYS disconnect the battery if going inside the primary
Mike
Last edited by mkguitar; May 29, 2013 at 11:53 PM.
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