Have a 2013 Street Glide with 4" Rinehart Slip Ons and the stock header pipe. Are stock header pipes with the cat removed as good as aftermarket, for instance Vance & Hines Dresser Duals? No other Mods other than a HD Stage 1 High Flow Air Filter. My goal is to eliminate the cat and create more sound from the exhaust. Not going to do any other mods regarding engine.

 

I've also heard comments all over the place regarding if a tuner is needed at all, what tuner is better, etc. What's popular opinion on this?

 

A tuner isn't needed. The ECM uses the oxygen sensors in the headpipe to monitor the AFR and adjust to maintain the AFR at the factory specs. If it changes too much for the ECM to adjust for your check engine light will come on. If that happens then you will need a tuner.

 

I have seen dyno charts that show that an aftermarket head pipe will produce more HP/TQ throughout the powerband...but only when everything else such as slip ons, air filter, etc are done. And to answer your question about using a tuner...yes it is DEFINITELY necessary if you plan on doing anything more than a de-catted head pipe. If that's the only modification, then no...it's not necessary. As far as which tuner is better? Im a Power commander guy myself. Reason being is I like to know that I am getting a good tune. There are too many ways to mess up on a dyno and the experienced guys seem to be far and few between. Plus...a power commander costs a little bit less than what a dyno session and other tuners would cost. Additionally, there are literally THOUSANDS of maps available on the power commander website. That right there is enough of a reason for me to stick to the Power Commander.

Edited...I just noticed the comment about the air filter. If you are running a stage I air filter without a tune, you are on a timer...and no the O2 sensors do not ADD fuel to the bike. They only take fuel away. They are programmed to max out at a certain output. A de-catted head pipe and stage I air filter will definitely push the bike's computer past the capacity of fuel that it is capable of putting out...and therefore and tuner is definitely needed. Better safe than sorry is what I always say. Plus, when talking any amount of performance, you cant have performance, reliability and cheap all at the same time....

 

With just a high flow air filter, I seriously doubt if you could feel much seat of the pants difference between a decatted stock header and V&H duals. The decatted header will be noticeably louder (than stock). I know that from experience. I've got a set of decatted pipes I don't need. If interested, PM me. If you are convinced you will not be going any further with engine work, Fuel Moto's Micro Tuner would probably be all you need and would also be the most economical. Just be warned that if you keep reading the Forum, there's no doubt where you might end up as far as engine work. My signature is proof of that! Good luck!

 

Nothing could be more accurate!!

 

If that were true, the VIEDS, XIEDS, and none of the piggy back type tuners would work. They all vary the voltage returned to the ECM by the O2 sensors to make the ECM think the bike is running leaner then it really is so it will lengthen the injector pulse to add more fuel.

 

And that is true and it still confirms what I said about the fuel is set to a certain maximum output. Making it pulse longer is just another way of adding more fuel. Regardless, additional fuel is necessary whenever adding an air filter or more....

 

You mean to tell us that YOUR bike's O2 sensors have fuel lines going to them?

And what about those pesky little VE's? Suppose some of those cells are already getting too much fuel? Additional fuel is (in your words) "necessary"?


Sorry dude, but you really have NO clue as to what you're talking about. No wonder new guys here get so confused.

PLEASE, PLEASE stay out of these discussions until you learn just a little about the HD EFI system.

 

I have no clue??? But you comment with some silly sh.t like this?? O2 sensors read the amount of oxygen in the air. Based on that reading, it tells the computer whether to add more fuel or take fuel away. The computer is programmed to put out a maximum volume of fuel. And that volume is based on atmosphere, temp, density of the air charge, etc. And where does that reading come from??? You guessed it...the O2 sensors. So, excuse me if I didnt get all ***** nilly technical when explaining it, and tried to keep it simple for folks like you that obviously have no clue what they're talking about. And since you're the subject matter expert, please confirm how many wires are running to the O2 sensors. Dont worry....i'll tell you....its TWO. A two wire O2 sensor works to take fuel away from a pre-set max. Im sure everyone on this post understood what I was saying except for you. And its no surprise that you didnt understand because you offered no meaningful information....just took it upon yourself to make yourself look even sillier. So please....explain to us in all of your infinite wisdom what it is that the OP needs to do when adding a de-catted head pipe to his stage I air cleaner that doesnt have a tune. And im sure you will have no problem forking out the cash that he will need in 10k miles or so when his cylinders finally detonate from running lean for oh so long.