Amsoil causing lifter noise?

Harley Davidson Forum

Sponsors

Harley Davidson History

Amsoil causing lifter noise?

Printable Version

Harley Davidson >> General Harley Davidson Tech Forums >> Oil and Oil related topics >> Amsoil causing lifter noise?

Page: [1]

Harley Davidson Forums Sponsor

Oil and Oil Related Topics Forum Sponsored by Royal Purple

Login
Message << Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Amsoil causing lifter noise? - 5/15/2008 11:01:41 AM

TexBred

Posts: 5
Joined: 5/15/2008
Status: offline Had a 103ci build done to my 07 Streetglide by a local shop. Andrews tw37h cams. No head work. After 1000 mi breakin with dino oil, I came back for the final tune, and I put Amsoil syn back in when I got home. Noticed lots of lifter noise after that. The builder said it was the syn Amsoil letting the lifters collapse. He put regular oil back in it and sure enough, the noise has pretty much subsided. He said he runs dino oil in all his engines. My issue is, I ran Amsoil before the build with no lifter noise. Any thoughts on this????

Post #: 1

RE: Amsoil causing lifter noise? - 5/15/2008 11:24:26 AM

SK8ROD

Posts: 446
Joined: 3/20/2008
Status: offline i had tappety noise with dino and when at 2.5k i switched to amsoil mcv the tappety noise carried on, no change. Its been driving me nuts, but from threads here i am fairly sure its normal, however now you got me thinking maybe i will try something different next oil change - pete

_____________________________

(in reply to TexBred)

Post #: 2

RE: Amsoil causing lifter noise? - 5/15/2008 11:41:10 AM

DeJavu

Posts: 2824
Joined: 6/29/2007
From: Bellville, Tx
Status: offline Am not familiar with those cams, but did they increase the lift any? It sounds like the Amsoil may have a slightly lower viscosity allowing the lifter to leak back as your mechanic suggested.

_____________________________

You find out who your bros are when you ride a kick only bike.

(in reply to SK8ROD)

Post #: 3

RE: Amsoil causing lifter noise? - 5/15/2008 1:20:06 PM

KBFXDLI

Posts: 8071
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: Cleveland, Ohio USA
Status: offline
I would stick an oil pressure guage on your engine and see what you are running with that build. Some guys will install a 30lb baisley bypass spring to give them more oil pressure on the top end. Amsoil MCV is the highest viscosity syn 20w50 oil out there. With either oil I would guage the pressure just to make sure you are getting enough.

_____________________________

06 FXDLI

Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty. Sam Adams

(in reply to TexBred)

Post #: 4

RE: Amsoil causing lifter noise? - 5/15/2008 3:37:13 PM

HD7585

Posts: 1343
Joined: 11/4/2006
Status: online
Re Adjust Valves?

_____________________________

85 FXST New Jersey
Belts are for Pants......If it said custom on it when you bought it.....It Ain't

(in reply to KBFXDLI)

Post #: 5

RE: Amsoil causing lifter noise? - 5/15/2008 5:11:28 PM

rbabos

Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
Status: offline Well, I'm going to throw some bs at you . I take it you understand how leak rates happen in lifters? Synthetic has uniform sized molecules, whereas dino is uneven sized. These uneven molecules tend to slow the leakdown rate in a lifter and keep it pumped up better. This shows up more with long duration cams as the load time is longer and in turn gives more leak down rate. If the oil pressure is not compensated for this the lifter will not recharge fast enough and noise will occur. Syn by nature with nice uniform molecules will show up problems in two areas. It will squeek through an opening faster if one of you gaskets are dicey and show a worn lifter faster than dino would. This gives the impression that dino 20/50 acts thicker than 20/50 syn but viscosity differences are negligable. I run Ams 20/50 in mine and did notice an ever so slight increase in engine noise at first, but no longer hear it. A slightly higher viscosity of syn would probably resolve some of these issues. Most people with stock engines may or may not notice any difference between the two with tight tollerances in the lifters. The builder's opinion is somewhat correct in the noise as syn will flow into tight places for better lubrication and unfortuantely flow out of tight places under pressure, as in lifter leakdown. The down side of superior lubrication.
Ron

(in reply to TexBred)

Post #: 6

RE: Amsoil causing lifter noise? - 5/16/2008 7:54:04 AM

KBFXDLI

Posts: 8071
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: Cleveland, Ohio USA
Status: offline
Try the Redline 20w60 at www.myoilshop.com

_____________________________

06 FXDLI

Our contest is not only whether we ourselves shall be free, but whether there shall be left to mankind an asylum on earth for civil and religious liberty. Sam Adams

(in reply to rbabos)

Post #: 7

RE: Amsoil causing lifter noise? - 5/16/2008 8:16:03 PM

pete913

Posts: 149
Joined: 5/24/2007
Status: offline I personally think your " builder" doesn't have a clue. If you have lifters collapsing, it's a lifter or oil pressure problem, not an oil problem. Even if you were running straight 5w oil, there is no reason for a lifter collapsing unless there is no pressure, even 10lbs would be enough to prevent that from happening.

(in reply to KBFXDLI)

Post #: 8

RE: Amsoil causing lifter noise? - 5/18/2008 7:54:59 PM

rbabos

Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pete913

I personally think your " builder" doesn't have a clue. If you have lifters collapsing, it's a lifter or oil pressure problem, not an oil problem. Even if you were running straight 5w oil, there is no reason for a lifter collapsing unless there is no pressure, even 10lbs would be enough to prevent that from happening.

Don't completely agree. Many years ago we tried straight weight aircraft oil in a shovel . Loudest engine I've ever heard, even though viscosities were the same. It was immediately dumped. Some oils behave differently than others. Going one step further I've tried Castrol 20/50 oil in my aircraft and being that it's hand propping to start, lifter bleed down was insufficiant when cold to have reliable compression strokes when propping. Once hot it was fine. Neither are bad oils, but the enviroment they were exposed to made it seem that way with the way the hydraulic units behaved.
Ron

(in reply to pete913)

Post #: 9

RE: Amsoil causing lifter noise? - 5/22/2008 4:36:43 PM

twiceretired

Posts: 151
Joined: 5/25/2007
Status: offline Question: wouldn't bleed down be more a function of film thickness and strength, rather than molecular size?

(in reply to rbabos)

Post #: 10

RE: Amsoil causing lifter noise? - 5/22/2008 6:08:24 PM

rbabos

Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: Woodstock, Ont , Can
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twiceretired

Question: wouldn't bleed down be more a function of film thickness and strength, rather than molecular size?

Logic would dictate that, but there seems to be more going on with the way different oils of the same viscosity behave. I really don't have the answer for it. I used to think oil is oil at one point , but that is no longer the case. What's needed here is a fluid dynamics expert to chime in and explain why for example Amsoil although is rated at the same viscosity as HD 360 20/50 seems to behave as a slighty thinner oil at normal operating temps even though it may not be thinner. The explanation I gave is something I whipped up on the spur of the moment.
Ron

(in reply to twiceretired)

Post #: 11

RE: Amsoil causing lifter noise? - 5/22/2008 7:40:07 PM

twiceretired

Posts: 151
Joined: 5/25/2007
Status: offline Viscosity and film thickness/strength are seperate issues with oils. The trick, as I've been learning so far, is to find the balance. I use a 5-50 engine oil, and am often critisized for using something so low as a 5w. I've been researching this, and as I've mentioned to KBFXDLI, I know it works, just not WHY it works. I've put together a couple of pages on it, and sent it in to the expert who's been schooling me for final aproval. I don't want to mis-state anything in my conclusions. What I'm lacking to date is the realationship between viscosity, film thickness and heat (all three). The oil I'm using has a film thickness of about 2X that of a dino oil, so even at a 5W, I'm getting adequate protection. That's why I suspect that the thickness is the key to the bleed down issue, amoung others. When I get this all together, I'll offer it up for consideration.
I'd only be guessing about Amsoil, but if they claim a 50W, then their oil MUST flow at the given test rate, at temperature. Film thickness/strength could easily vary some, but here again, I'm still waiting to find out how heat affects that thickness as the oil travels through it's various viscosities.
Frank

(in reply to rbabos)

Post #: 12

RE: Amsoil causing lifter noise? - 5/25/2008 12:22:51 PM

vibr8ir

Posts: 132
Joined: 8/12/2007
Status: offline I broke my 95" build w/ H/d 20/50 and bike made all kinds of noise.. Went back to Mobil 1 syn. now my bike purrs again. My bike knows the better oil.. Steve

(in reply to twiceretired)

Post #: 13

Login OR Register now to post a reply to this forum topic.

Page: [1]