Uptown Ripper
#41
03-08-2019, 07:10 AM
Is this the one you have? It says it does drop it down to clear the swingarm
Sorry for going off topic
#43
03-11-2019, 08:45 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Originally Posted by HD_Matt
Is this the one you have? It says it does drop it down to clear the swingarm
Sorry for going off topic
#44
04-16-2019, 06:27 PM
The following 4 users liked this post by TOE_CUTTER:
#46
06-12-2019, 11:33 PM
Well, got some good news and bad news today.
First the good news, the 117 is going to become a 124!
The bad news, the cause of the good news is because of scoring on the small end bores of the stock connecting rods and piston pins.
The 117 stock crankshaft assembly was gone thru, trued, welded, and balanced, but the design of the small end of the stock rods didn't like the power and rpm. I would be money ahead if I had bit the bullet and went for the S&S assembly to begin with.
The other good news is the build is going for 150+ hp. We'll see what happens.
Dave
First the good news, the 117 is going to become a 124!
The bad news, the cause of the good news is because of scoring on the small end bores of the stock connecting rods and piston pins.
The 117 stock crankshaft assembly was gone thru, trued, welded, and balanced, but the design of the small end of the stock rods didn't like the power and rpm. I would be money ahead if I had bit the bullet and went for the S&S assembly to begin with.
The other good news is the build is going for 150+ hp. We'll see what happens.
Dave
The following users liked this post:
NMU (08-11-2019)
#47
06-13-2019, 12:04 AM
I noticed I didn't post after the pic of the exhaust that lead up to finding out the news today. I am trying to chronologically list everything on this build.
After the exhaust was finished the bike went back to RC Cycles. Ron had commented before on how the cover over the now-defunct tank gauge cluster looked, so he has a metal worker who does aircraft parts to modify the console. After jacking up the rear, you can see the inner bracket mount on the rear fender. It was painted grey, so getting that powder coated black. After discussion with Ron about the power, and me wanting more, he recommended a T-Man 662-1 cam. Along with that to also bump up the compression by using domed pistons. There is some other small cometic items and mechanical things being done as well.
The heads got pulled right away and sent out for new valve springs for the new cam, and they came back. Today they started tearing into the motor, and the scoring got discovered.
I did ride the bike for a short 5-minute ride from my house to RC's after getting the exhaust done and suspension work. The bike had a COMPLETELY different feel, and after the motor work is done, it will be totally different than before. I have the itch bad to ride.
Dave
After the exhaust was finished the bike went back to RC Cycles. Ron had commented before on how the cover over the now-defunct tank gauge cluster looked, so he has a metal worker who does aircraft parts to modify the console. After jacking up the rear, you can see the inner bracket mount on the rear fender. It was painted grey, so getting that powder coated black. After discussion with Ron about the power, and me wanting more, he recommended a T-Man 662-1 cam. Along with that to also bump up the compression by using domed pistons. There is some other small cometic items and mechanical things being done as well.
The heads got pulled right away and sent out for new valve springs for the new cam, and they came back. Today they started tearing into the motor, and the scoring got discovered.
I did ride the bike for a short 5-minute ride from my house to RC's after getting the exhaust done and suspension work. The bike had a COMPLETELY different feel, and after the motor work is done, it will be totally different than before. I have the itch bad to ride.
Dave
#48
08-08-2019, 10:55 PM
Little update. All the parts are in for the motor and re-assembly can begin. The S&S crankshaft assembly was custom ordered and that took the longest to get in. Going to go with an external breather system, like what T-man does with his, except just running the hose to the ground.
Also changing out the final belt drive for a chain drive. Have everything listed in this thread:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/dyna-...2006-dyna.html
Mainly doing the above hunting for the 150+ hp. Looking for a the broadest torque curve, so every trick is being used to get that and the hp.
Going to do something a little different. The Sputhe Positrac is getting installed along with with the Custom Cycle Engineering Adjustable front motor mount. After the motor is in, everything is going to be installed except the gas tank and muffler. Going to take the bike then to GP Frame and Wheel in Sacramento and get everything aligned. After alignment, the rear and front stabilizer links will be removed. I want to see if we're going to need them or not on the street. If the bike still feels like a wet noodle at high speeds, then I can easily install the links to see if it tightens it up. I want to see if the Ohlins suspension front and rear cures the wet noodle feel first.
These upgrades have definitely been a journey.
Dave
Also changing out the final belt drive for a chain drive. Have everything listed in this thread:
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/dyna-...2006-dyna.html
Mainly doing the above hunting for the 150+ hp. Looking for a the broadest torque curve, so every trick is being used to get that and the hp.
Going to do something a little different. The Sputhe Positrac is getting installed along with with the Custom Cycle Engineering Adjustable front motor mount. After the motor is in, everything is going to be installed except the gas tank and muffler. Going to take the bike then to GP Frame and Wheel in Sacramento and get everything aligned. After alignment, the rear and front stabilizer links will be removed. I want to see if we're going to need them or not on the street. If the bike still feels like a wet noodle at high speeds, then I can easily install the links to see if it tightens it up. I want to see if the Ohlins suspension front and rear cures the wet noodle feel first.
These upgrades have definitely been a journey.
Dave
#49
08-08-2019, 11:58 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Sounds like an AWESOME engine build! But remember... Suspension can't keep the swingarm from responding to lateral engine movement, which is what the stabilizers are for. Maaaybe that crank is so balanced that lateral engine movement will be reduced. But I kinda feel like the bigger and more powerful an engine, the more it needs to be stabilized. Also, with improved suspension it probably WILL feel better than it had, but that doesn't mean it's optimal... Why not alter your experiment a little... Get used to the bike with the stabilizer in place, then take it off and see if you can tell the difference... I'll be interested in the answer (for real).
#50
08-09-2019, 01:52 AM
Sounds like an AWESOME engine build! But remember... Suspension can't keep the swingarm from responding to lateral engine movement, which is what the stabilizers are for. Maaaybe that crank is so balanced that lateral engine movement will be reduced. But I kinda feel like the bigger and more powerful an engine, the more it needs to be stabilized. Also, with improved suspension it probably WILL feel better than it had, but that doesn't mean it's optimal... Why not alter your experiment a little... Get used to the bike with the stabilizer in place, then take it off and see if you can tell the difference... I'll be interested in the answer (for real).
Your input in another thread:
Lots of factors could cause something on two wheels to become unstable, but when the term "Dyna Death Wobble" is used it usually refers to something more specific than that, and once the chassis design is really understood it's clear why this particular condition wouldn't happen to a non-Dyna. It's still a confusing set of circumstances to correct, because there are many potential factors that could cause it. But the result is that the rear wheel in some conditions will move in an unwanted manner either vertically or in the yaw axis. The resulting "rear steer" will make the bike wobble, vibrate, weave, or shimmy. This is a Dyna-only condition because it stems from the swingarm being attached directly to the engine/tranny, which is rubber mounted and moves around. It won't happen on an FXR (for example), because the swingarm is located in the frame.
Sorry to recap stuff that most people know, but for those who don't, here is the basic Dyna architecture:
There are two distinct halves to a Dyna: The front wheel, fork, and frame are one assembly. The rear wheel, swingarm, engine and transmission are a completely separate assembly. The two assemblies are connected to each other purely by the two rubber engine mounts, one in the front of the engine, the other on the back of the transmission. The top link is really just a stabilizer/locater for alignment purposes, and isn't really a structural link between the two halves. Any and all movement incurred by the engine is directly carried through the transmission to the swingarm and the rear wheel. If the engine vibrates in the longitudinal chassis plane, this isn't much of an issue. If it vibrates left to right, the swingarm and rear wheel move left to right. If the engine swings like a pendulum from the top link, the rear tire actually rolls onto it's sidewalls a little bit, back and forth. The purpose of all the different aftermarket stabilizers is to limit lateral engine movement, while allowing enough longitudinal movement to keep unwanted vibration in check. This architecture explains why a Dyna is much more sensitive to all chassis adjustments/issues than some bikes are... Air pressure, wheel bearings, steering bearings, swingarm bearings, and particularly drivetrain alignment... That's why the same outcome can be difficult to diagnose from bike to bike.
The good news is that when properly setup, a Dyna chassis is actually a very good handling platform.
Sorry to recap stuff that most people know, but for those who don't, here is the basic Dyna architecture:
There are two distinct halves to a Dyna: The front wheel, fork, and frame are one assembly. The rear wheel, swingarm, engine and transmission are a completely separate assembly. The two assemblies are connected to each other purely by the two rubber engine mounts, one in the front of the engine, the other on the back of the transmission. The top link is really just a stabilizer/locater for alignment purposes, and isn't really a structural link between the two halves. Any and all movement incurred by the engine is directly carried through the transmission to the swingarm and the rear wheel. If the engine vibrates in the longitudinal chassis plane, this isn't much of an issue. If it vibrates left to right, the swingarm and rear wheel move left to right. If the engine swings like a pendulum from the top link, the rear tire actually rolls onto it's sidewalls a little bit, back and forth. The purpose of all the different aftermarket stabilizers is to limit lateral engine movement, while allowing enough longitudinal movement to keep unwanted vibration in check. This architecture explains why a Dyna is much more sensitive to all chassis adjustments/issues than some bikes are... Air pressure, wheel bearings, steering bearings, swingarm bearings, and particularly drivetrain alignment... That's why the same outcome can be difficult to diagnose from bike to bike.
The good news is that when properly setup, a Dyna chassis is actually a very good handling platform.
and an excerpt from Victory Tech Papers, Motorcycle Chassis Design and Modification:
"what a “great handling” frame does: keep the steering head in exactly the same juxtaposition with the swing-arm mount under all conditions, nothing more nor less"
I have made so many changes, that it might be best as you suggest to just run with the links on and if the vibrations are not bad, and it runs on rails, make notes, and then try without. The crankshaft assembly was balanced, so vibrations should be minimal.
Thanks for the complement on the build.
Dave
Last edited by TOE_CUTTER; 08-09-2019 at 01:54 AM.