lifter question
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 122
Likes: 1
lifter question
ok heres the story. i had to pull a motor to fix a leak. while the lifters were out, they were sitting in a bag not in oil. i forgot to put them in oil overnight before i reinstalled them. as soon as i fired the bike i heard the noise. i shut her down and turned over to TDC, let them sit about 20 mins and readjusted. they got a little quieter. still some noise so i decided to check them again. i noticed that after i went TDC about 5 mins later i could push them down(compress them with my fingers and pushrod installed. set them again and still ticking. there was no problem before and now i cant seem to adjust them. just the front cylinder. is it normal after sitting 5 minutes to be able to compress them with just your fingers pushing down, or are they not pumping up? i cant tell. first time ive ever had this problem. did i ruin something putting them in dry? i would think that after running they would pump up to normal. ive got the bike set now on TDC on that cylinder. im gonna let it sit overnight and readjust them in the morn. any ideas would be great. thanx.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 12
From: Bluffton, South Carolina
First it takes a little while for the lifter to pump up once it is started dry. Secondly the lifter will "bleed'" down. Third when the cylinder is at top dead center (TDC) the valves can be open. If you look at the cam card, or look up the information on-line you will see that most cams have valve lift at TDC. If you adjust the valves there then you will have them set too loose by that much. Set the valve when the lifter is on the heel of the cam, it takes a little longer but the results are much better. Hope this helps.
Road Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 794
Likes: 3
From:
Damnit if I did'nt take your advice on this John, set my rod's deeper into the lifters, and totally get rid of my decel backfires!
Cheers man, and if your ever in British Columbia.... I owe you a few
Cheers... Ben.
Cheers man, and if your ever in British Columbia.... I owe you a few
Cheers... Ben.
Road Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 794
Likes: 3
From:
Yeah, well it did'nt eliminate it.
Guess I was just hearing things, or NOT hearing things on that first ride after resetting the rods.
Was'nt a totall failure thou, did quiet'n down the top end .
Back to the drawing board I guess!
Guess I was just hearing things, or NOT hearing things on that first ride after resetting the rods.
Was'nt a totall failure thou, did quiet'n down the top end
.Back to the drawing board I guess!
Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 535
Likes: 14
From: Highspire Pa
As some already know, I am only learning - mostly by reading, trial and error, and a lot of patience. I make a small adjustment, ride for while and mentally note the differences. We have about 5000 miles on the engine we installed last fall.
If the only remaining problem is popping on deceleration, could it not only be a small exhaust or intake leak? On mine, I need to keep the idle mixture a bit on the rich side or I get popping on hard deceleration. I am not talking much of a difference either, 1/4 turn on the idle air mixture screw will go from popping to no popping on deceleration.
Lately, I have been trying different things hoping to be able to run a little leaner on the idle air mixture to improve gas mileage. Now thinking it might be a very small intake leak, even though I have been unable to detect any using the WD-40 spray. It seems the idle air mixture also plays a big part in gas mileage I get with our bike. I have noticed the gas mileage changed (with our normal 2 up riding, usually 50-60 mph) just by adjusting the idle air mixture screw, a little leaner gives a little better gas mileage but causes popping on hard deceleration - the point where everything seems to run perfectly, I get gas mileage in the mid to low 30's and my goal is to be back up to 40 mpg that we used to get with the 80" engine.
If the only remaining problem is popping on deceleration, could it not only be a small exhaust or intake leak? On mine, I need to keep the idle mixture a bit on the rich side or I get popping on hard deceleration. I am not talking much of a difference either, 1/4 turn on the idle air mixture screw will go from popping to no popping on deceleration.
Lately, I have been trying different things hoping to be able to run a little leaner on the idle air mixture to improve gas mileage. Now thinking it might be a very small intake leak, even though I have been unable to detect any using the WD-40 spray. It seems the idle air mixture also plays a big part in gas mileage I get with our bike. I have noticed the gas mileage changed (with our normal 2 up riding, usually 50-60 mph) just by adjusting the idle air mixture screw, a little leaner gives a little better gas mileage but causes popping on hard deceleration - the point where everything seems to run perfectly, I get gas mileage in the mid to low 30's and my goal is to be back up to 40 mpg that we used to get with the 80" engine.
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 181
Likes: 0
From: Chesapeake, VA
PAJOE,
My 113" is doing exactly what yours is. Low 30's for MPG and popping thru the exhaust on deccel. Also get quite a bit of ping rolling on in 5th or 6th. Can't recall if you have a VOES, but I don't yet.
That being said, mine runs like a scalded dog and is a whole lotta fun to ride. Made my 87 Heritage seem like a new bike.
When I'm not enjoying the feeling of being pushed back in my seat, I run less than 1/4 throttle, even on the highway in 6th, so per the tuning manual, it should be on the needle and the pilot jet. Keep feeling like I haven't yet "cracked the code" on the HSR yet, but am getting close.
Put a fatter needle (98) in this past weekend and couldn't even get out of the neighborhood due to the cough thru the carb (too lean).
Am considering dropping to a 22.5 pilot jet to see what effect that may have, but suspect it will be too lean. Recall reading a thread a while back that recommended bumping up a jet size, so may try that too.
Will stay in touch as things progress.
My 113" is doing exactly what yours is. Low 30's for MPG and popping thru the exhaust on deccel. Also get quite a bit of ping rolling on in 5th or 6th. Can't recall if you have a VOES, but I don't yet.
That being said, mine runs like a scalded dog and is a whole lotta fun to ride. Made my 87 Heritage seem like a new bike.
When I'm not enjoying the feeling of being pushed back in my seat, I run less than 1/4 throttle, even on the highway in 6th, so per the tuning manual, it should be on the needle and the pilot jet. Keep feeling like I haven't yet "cracked the code" on the HSR yet, but am getting close.
Put a fatter needle (98) in this past weekend and couldn't even get out of the neighborhood due to the cough thru the carb (too lean).
Am considering dropping to a 22.5 pilot jet to see what effect that may have, but suspect it will be too lean. Recall reading a thread a while back that recommended bumping up a jet size, so may try that too.
Will stay in touch as things progress.
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 12
From: Bluffton, South Carolina
Ironbutt,
What carb, what jets, what is your accelerator pump setting, what accelerator pump nozzle do you have??? Maybe we can help. Before you play with the carb make sure valves and timing are on or you will just be treading water.
What carb, what jets, what is your accelerator pump setting, what accelerator pump nozzle do you have??? Maybe we can help. Before you play with the carb make sure valves and timing are on or you will just be treading water.
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Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 535
Likes: 14
From: Highspire Pa
IronButt62,
I am running a bagger with lowers and near the weight limit so my engine setup is under a bit more heat related stress than a soft tale. I am current trying a VOES, first set it to a little above 7 hg and switched to a lower advance curve, the one for 127+ engines. So far no problem with pinging, but running the timing a little bit more retarded may have offset any gains in gas mileage obtained by using a VOES. I think I will disconnect it until a later time.
Mine is close, if it just got a little better gas mileage, I would say it is good. Like you I did switch to the leaner needle but used the 2nd from the bottom ring for the clip and for the most part it reads 13.2:1 on my air/fuel ratio gauge once I get past 1/4 throttle - below that it shows 12.7:1, I think that if I could set the idle mixture at 13.2:1 my gas mileage would improve a lot, but when I lean it out that far it pops on deceleration. I kept the accelerator nozzle the same, just changed it so it would come sooner and pump longer.
I am using stock headers from an '08 with cvo pipes and 1.75 Fullsac baffles. I think I have a really small leak, just unable to find it, spraying the WD-40 did not reveal it. Under hard deceleration I can see it lean out on the air/fuel ratio gauge, if it goes off the lean end of the scale, it pops. If I keep it a 12.7:1 at idle it will still get a little leaner on hard deceleration but not off the scale.
I am running a bagger with lowers and near the weight limit so my engine setup is under a bit more heat related stress than a soft tale. I am current trying a VOES, first set it to a little above 7 hg and switched to a lower advance curve, the one for 127+ engines. So far no problem with pinging, but running the timing a little bit more retarded may have offset any gains in gas mileage obtained by using a VOES. I think I will disconnect it until a later time.
Mine is close, if it just got a little better gas mileage, I would say it is good. Like you I did switch to the leaner needle but used the 2nd from the bottom ring for the clip and for the most part it reads 13.2:1 on my air/fuel ratio gauge once I get past 1/4 throttle - below that it shows 12.7:1, I think that if I could set the idle mixture at 13.2:1 my gas mileage would improve a lot, but when I lean it out that far it pops on deceleration. I kept the accelerator nozzle the same, just changed it so it would come sooner and pump longer.
I am using stock headers from an '08 with cvo pipes and 1.75 Fullsac baffles. I think I have a really small leak, just unable to find it, spraying the WD-40 did not reveal it. Under hard deceleration I can see it lean out on the air/fuel ratio gauge, if it goes off the lean end of the scale, it pops. If I keep it a 12.7:1 at idle it will still get a little leaner on hard deceleration but not off the scale.
Road Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 794
Likes: 3
From:
One thing that has me wondering could be related to the deccel popping. I also switched to the Mikuni HSR, and I noticed when installing it, the slide never completely closes, when your right off the throttle, so it's allways alowing air thru.
Did'nt the CV's slide go right down into the bore of the carb, when your throttle is closed?
Did'nt the CV's slide go right down into the bore of the carb, when your throttle is closed?