Now Graham,

Tell him about everything else you've done to update your bike, so he has the complete picture!!

 

Buddy, that might put him off the idea! But none of it is to do with changing to a bigger engine, just improving the bike in other ways, like braking and ride quality.

 

I m thinking about 111 S&S
http://www.sscycle.com/product/cart....detail&p=21080

And Baker 6 speed OD transmission gears.
that will make my old bike faster and more comfortable for long distance trips.

But Ihave no idea what primary to use! Or I can use stock one? Is not it too weak for new engine and trans? And again - I`ve heard with S&S engines motorcycle became more rough and noisy, what about rubber mounts - will they handle 111 S&S?

 

The S&S 111 is the replacement for my 107. See my earlier post about primary and transmission. Both these engines are intended for touring, so they are not tuned for high power. I have been riding my 107 for 10k miles now and done two tours of 2,500 miles without problems using an entirely stock 1990 bike, with only a Barnett clutch spring to cope with the extra torque. Don't spend more money that necessary!

If you fit an OD transmission you will reduce the torque of your new engine to near stock levels when in sixth, which means you will see no improvement in performance, except by changing down a gear.

To explain that, if you have a stock bike with around 80 ft.lbs torque, compare that with my 107, which gives 103 ft.lbs. An OD transmission in sixth has a .86 ratio which reduces torque by that amount, to 88 ft.lbs. That ain't enough over a stock motor to be noticable!

A 111 will give a few more ft.lbs. torque than my 107, but to get the benefit of a new engine leave the transmission and gearing alone. Otherwise you will just kill it! If you want increased performance and an OD transmission, you need to get a radically larger and more powerful motor IMHO.

 

So you think 111 is NOT powerfull enough for 6 speed baker?

Actually I do not understand why. TC also has 6 speed OD from HD. And 111 has even more torque than stock TC!

 

Harleys have been fitting higher and higher stock gearing to their bikes for many years and recently added an OD transmission as part of that programme. They are only doing it to lower engine noise for noise emissions. Nothing else! TCs do not have 6 speeds for our benefit, but to keep the noise police happy. They are not a good thing IMHO!

What I am saying is that if you fit an OD transmission, when in sixth gear your 111 will have similar performance to your stock motor in fifth. To some owners that will be OK, but when rolling on the throttle on the highway you will have spent a lot of dollars for no significant improvement in performance.

Put another way, a 111 engine will give a roughly 25% increase in torque over stock. An OD transmission will reduce torque in top gear by 16%. The difference on the road will not be very much at the seat of your pants. If you stay with your stock gearing, you will get the full 25% increased performance, at no extra cost!

To fit an OD transmission AND get a significant increase in performance will require a much bigger motor than a 111. It makes no sense to me to buy a big motor like a 111, then kill its potential performance gain by raising the gearing.

I live in the UK and bought my 1990 bike new. At that time we had more severe noise limitations than you in the USA and by bike had a 61T stock rear pulley. Since I installed my 107 and as part of my 'performance improvement programme' I fitted a 70T rear pulley, so my bike now has what was stock US gearing back in 1990. I have roughly 25% increased torque from my 107 AND 15% improved torque from the change in gearing, giving me almost 50% improved performance over a stock bike.

 

Stop! My mind is exploded!

1. noise. We have some "nosie limitations" here in russia, bu nobody cares. So I do not care also.
2. Yes my torque at rear wheel will be reduced by 6 speed OD, but I will have same speed (80 mph is common between the cities) at lower RPM. isn`t it? So that is the idea. What I`m careing about is the more torque between engine and trans.
So you are sayng its much better to keep stock trans and change the motor. In my opinion what I will have in that case - more dynamics and that is all. I will keep 3 700 RPM for 80 mph.

P.S. New Idea - me, my girlfriend and my old flhtc at Bedford drinking IPA with you!

 

And ask my buddy who spent big bucks for a new SE 110 Fat Bob how I smoked him with my 85" EVO with a Baker DD6!! Also my neighbors 98" Softtail Classic. It's all in how you put the combination together, not to mention that my FXR is much lighter. I still have some work to do to get the carb dialed in correctly. Graham will steer you in the right direction though if you have a heavier model bike, so listen to him and others who have gone through the trials and tribulations..

 

Nice gearing for a big bike is a 3.37 primary, 30 trans and 70 rear. It pulls hard in every gear, I forget what that adds up to as the final. First doesn't require riding the clutch, 55 mph is right in the power range and will pull out of 45 mph in 5th gear and very very seldom do you need to shift. Now add in the 6 speed where 1 thru 5 is the same and 6th will get your 75-80 mph rpm's calmed down and will accellerate with a decent engine.
Twinkie riders make this 2 teeth drop on the trans pulley to make 6th more useable and complain about 6th being unusable, they have big factory cubes and talk about 6th lugging and won't pull out of it.

Bakers DD6 offers a 1 tooth less trans pulley for more giddy up other than the pulley that comes with it so dropping some teeth is in his playbook also.

 

1. I have a pair of S&S oval mufflers, which are not too loud, but they can be made quieter with extra bolt-on baffles. I am thinking of doing that to my bike.
2. You are quite right. If you use an OD transmission your 3,700 rpm will be reduced to around 3,200 at 80mph.
3. Buddy mentions Baker's DD6. If you read Baker's website they recommend using that instead of the OD6 and I have read other reports recommending that for a dresser. By using slightly lower overall gearing as 1997bagger suggests (cheaper to fit a smaller compensator sprocket on the crankshaft) you get a better first gear and also a higher top gear, although not as high as I mention at 2 above, about 3,500rpm at 80mph. If I fitted a 6-speed that is the option I would choose.
4. But it is cheaper to stay with your stock 5-speed. You could always fit a 6-speed transmission later!
5. If you have to pay import taxes (like I do here in the UK) it is a good idea to take expensive projects like these in easy stages, to keep the costs down, unless you can afford to do everything you want to in one big hit. A new motor is a big expense!
P.S. That's a great idea! One heck of a trip though! It's about 2,000miles (over 3,000km) one way. My wife and I travelled to Poland and back in May, just over 2,500 miles in all. My sig pic is of our bike resting in France, on the way back. You can see what wet weather we had!