After monitoring Brandonsmiths thread over in the M8 section it leaves me with questions. How much training and additional yearly update training do these techs receive to be qualified to work on these bikes? Especially new models with new motors and technology.

I love this new bike and Harley's in general and as of yet I have had zero issues. Please, don't take this as bitching, or trashing the MoCo in any shape or form. Furthermore, my intention is not to start a clusterf%^* here. As a consumer and owner of one of these motorcycles, my expectation of confidence in these techs ability should not be an issue. But, after reading his thread my confidence level has diminished even further.

I realize these techs are "trained and certified" but does that really mean anything? Does a tech who was trained and certified in 2012, employed at a dealership since, receive additional training in 2016 prior to the M8's arrival in 2017? If so, is it adequate? Is it possible these guys just learn as they go with issues new to them using my bike possibly as a straight line to the learning curve.

I realize these techs are mechanics and a tech with one year on the job has way more experience than I ever will. However, I purchased and have gone through the 2018 service manual. This manual is so easy and detailed I feel confident enough that even I could perform any task it explains. Problem is I don't have the space, all the specialty tools or the time. Nor do I have the ability to just throw someone else's money at the problem hoping to solve the issue.

How is it that Brandonsmith had to explain to the service manager and tech the proper way to check his fluids? Brandon, knew about the tranny migration issue and had to make them aware of related bulletin. The tech initially thought his bike was migrating oil not trans fluid.
The tech advised him the proper way to check fluids opposite of what the owners manual and service manual specify. This is basic 101 stuff everyone here knows vs trained techs and service managers.

I always assumed via human nature and probably incorrectly that the service writers at any dealership be it car, boat, rv, motorcycle etc. have a basic knowledge of the product their facility is servicing.

Maybe the "ding ding ding" lightbulb is finally going off in my head and the techs who are possibly doing service and warranty work on my bike, do not have the level of expertise equal to the consumers expectation and confidence level?

I am the production manager for a company that produces downhill drilling components for both land and offshore applications. Our specialty is making seals for already drilled sites. If someone has a problem we find the cure and make what we need with confidence. I equate this entire scenario with someone coming to our company with a problem related to components we made and designed and they know more about the issues with our stuff than we do!

Without this Forum I feel like I would just be another blind, confidence drunk consumer. This is where this site helps owners like me. Besides my job, I don't claim to know a lot about everything. My dad taught me "you will get further in life learning a little about everything vs everything about one thing"

I know very little about these bikes, but I expect the dealer I purchased it from to at least have one guy that does. Peace.

 

When HD went to the 103 engine techs at two different HD dealerships I visited for service didn't know the Primary went to 38oz of fluid. They do not read the owners manuals, or service manuals, they just rely on past experience..

It's the same way at car dealerships with new models, engines, etc..

A few years ago I bought a 2500 Dodge with the Cummins and wanted to purchase the block heater cord at the dealership and install it myself. When I went to the parts dept, the guy referred me to the Service Dept. The Service writer actually told me I had to buy the entire cold weather package from Dodge and have them install it, to include the block heater. I then had to educate/show him the block heater is already installed in the motor from Cummins and that the cord ($25 option) can be ordered separately. I also told him to stop trying to be a mechanic!
I walked back into parts dept, ordered the part, installed it myself!

Those of us that frequent forums such as this are generally more informed!

 

I have experienced both sides of the hd tech level of knowledge.

When I was in Pa my dealer was one of the best shops in the tri state area. The techs were mostly seasoned guys who have been in the motorcycle industry for decades. Never had any issues with any of the work I had performed there. I do most of my own but used them for warranty and anything that required special tools that I don't have or care to buy. The service manager was honest and willing to help with advise on repairs I was doing myself. He would even lend tools to guys to do simple repairs in the parking lot. He told me they follow the service manual to the letter on every repair as well as relying on their years of experience

By the way this dealer is an old school type mom and pop shop, not a big boutique like most today.

Since moving to Florida I have experienced the complete opposite, There are 3 dealers of equal distance from me and all of them have s****y service departments. My wife had a tranny bearing replaced under warranty, took the tech 8 hours to complete. Told us he had to repeat the repair because he had problems pressing the bearing in. This kid was all of 25 and is supposed to be the top tech at the shop! We left and 2 mioles down the road the shifter shaft fell of- no bolt in the shift arm.

So I guess its hit or miss. Depends on the dealer ownership, pay peanuts get monkeys!.

 

Agreed with the hit or miss depending on the dealer. But its that way IMO at any type of dealer...Car, RV, Boat, Tractor etc...

For example I have a GMC 2500 diesel. Got it last year when they came out with the LP5 engine, and GM is still figuring out the kinks and everything with the LP5. Next week I'll have had the truck for a year and theres about 22-23,000 miles on it. Theres been a few service bulletins that have been coming out and I've been paying attention to them over on the duramax forum. Earlier this month, I was leaving the gym when I started my truck and the CEL came on, and I got a message saying "engine power reduced." It ended up being needing a new vane position actuator and the module that controls it. So naturally I am pissed as it is I have to limp it back home, wait for the dealer to open because I cant take it to my normal shop due to this being a warranty issue...anyway I call the dealer they say bring it in at 10, well look at it today.

Limp it up to the dealer, drop it off, and mentioned a couple other problems that I knew for a fact that there were service bulletins out on. I was hoping they'd pick up on that and look up some service bulletins. I also know there were TWO open recalls on it. One was for a seatbelt discrepancy with what was on the window sticker, and what is actually in the truck. The other is for an ECM update. The seatbelt one is voluntary, and I think the ECM is also but I'm not 100% sure on that one. I told the guy at the front desk to please check for any available ECM/TCM updates also.

I leave, dont hear anything all day. I wait until noon that day to call for an update. "Oh, we just pulled it in now to look at it and we'll give you a call back." Now I'm annoyed that it took nearly a day and a half to look at the thing, but still hopeful they'll have it fixed and returned to me shortly. Cutting out all of the extras, I dropped it off monday originally. Didn't get it back until friday. Calling once, sometimes twice a day looking for updates because they kept failing to call me back when they said they would. Every time I called I asked whoever picked up in the service department to please check and make sure all of the software updates have been done while I have it up there. All they kept telling me was "yeah, thats all automatic its going to have to be updated anyway when he installs the new module." I did not have a warm fuzzy feeling dealing with these guys.

I finally pick it up friday. Did a good amount of driving that weekend, 500 miles ish. MONDAY a letter shows up for me from GM, telling me that I have two open recalls. I'm thinking, this must have crossed in the mail, because I just had it up there. I called them up just to confirm they did it, and what do you know... "oh, we didnt do that....I apologize our service writer at the front desk is new and didnt know to check for recalls. Why dont you bring it back and we'll get it done..." Not only that, but there is an annoying rattling sound coming from somewhere in the front of the truck and it definitely wasnt there before.

I suppose the purpose of my little rant there was to just point out that sometimes the customer can be a bit more educated on the subject than the service department. I do take some of the blame for my situation, this was the first time I've used their service department so I wanted to at least believe a little bit they'd do the homework on the problems I mentioned and do the appropriate work and check for recalls and all of that. In the future, if I have to go back there for anything else, I'll be sure to be specific and list any service bulletin/recall work I want done.

Normally if its anything I cant do myself, it goes to my local "indy." Being the first time i've needed any warranty work, it was a new experience for me. At least I learned something.

 

It takes a degree of professionalism to keep up with changes, innovation, etc. in your field especially when you have to do it on your own time -- no compensation. If working for flat rate there is a lot of incentive to rely on past experience, too.

It is worse to me to have someone ignore or disagree with me when I try to explain something about their product that they really should know, however, than their ignorance of some fact. I have had this happen on several occasions at least once at a HD dealer, but also Kawasaki, Honda and Mazda dealers. It seems to be coming more common but that is purely a subjective judgement.

 

Just like every other occupation, there are varying degrees of competence. And with over 500 or so HD Dealerships in the US, making blanket statements about the tech's or really anything much about the dealerships is rather meaningless.

No doubt some techs in some service departments are great and keep up with the knowledge and skills needed to work on the current lines of bikes, and there are no doubt others who do not.

I don't worry about it much since I do my own work for the most part. But both HD dealerships I've used for service (recalls and a minor repair) were done competently.

Every bike was "new" technology at some point. 4 years ago it was the Rushmore's, Now it's the M8's, prior to that it was all sorts of new functionality rolled out over time- Fuel Injection, ABS, Hydraulic Clutches, going back further, Electric Start, Disc Brakes, Hydraulic Brakes, belt drive, all of that stuff was new at the time, and likely presented the same dilemma to some.

 

Agreed with this completely. It goes for every single occupation and varies location to location and day to day.

I guess the OP is more questioning if there is any type of corporate minimum requirements to be a tech and corporate minimum requirements to keep up on "continuing education"... and of course some dealers are going to hire the "minimally qualified" guy, and some dealers are going to have guys that are above and beyond the requirements to be a tech.

 

 

I really appreciate all the responses. I just got back from a four hour ride and was able to log 250 miles. While out there I contemplated all this controversy with these new M8's.

I stopped by the dealer where I purchased my bike Sept 29th, 2017. I've been back there just a few times since. I was greeted by the salesman I had dealt with who remembered my name. We talked a few minutes and the general manager walked up and also greeted me by name. I was impressed, because I didn't really remember his. While speaking to my salesman we got on the topic of deer hunting and I was telling him about my recent hunting experience. The new sales manager is a big deer hunter and my salesman called him by name and asked me if I had met him. Now, he said "new sales" manager so I assumed it was a new sales manager since I bought my bike. At any rate he wanted me to tell him this hunting story and his name didn't ring any bells. So, we walk into his office and he greets me by name and shakes my hand. It was the same guy I met when I bought my bike but I only recognized him upon seeing him. During the conversation he asks me "how's the new Road King with the new Mil8?" Amazed he's even remembered what bike I purchased, I told him it was awesome in spite of all the bad publicity it's getting from some on the HDforum.

His reply was "what bad publicity or complaints are you referring to?" I proceed to tell him about the sumping issues, transmission oil migrating issue and oil pump controversy? He laughs and said "Are you serious? This is news to me." He then looks to the salesman and asks him "have you heard about any of this?" Salesman shakes his head and sais "first I've heard."

I then tell him about the bulletin released by the MoCo and he said "that's good to know, the service guys handle all that."

Now either these guys are being honest or they know, and are under some gag order and should win an Academy Award for their responses. Both also said they don't spend their time away from work on Harley Forums, but both are riders. I understand this as I don't spend my off time dwelling in downhole drilling forums.

I am convinced, most guys selling these bikes have no clue to issues some are dealing with. Yet, by human nature I just assume they do. Most people assume all cops are gun nuts when they really are not. Most people also assume all NASCAR drivers are mechanics when in reality they know very little about mechanics or the nomenclature which allows them to exceed 200 mph on the race track.

I ran my bike especially hard this time out. The hardest I have yet. Soon as I got home I checked the oil and it was on the 4th hashmark. When it cools off I'll check the tranny and probably find it normal too. I really hate that some have this issue and I hope it gets ironed out.

I know these posts are really long. I'll try to use fewer words in the future. Thanks for listening.

 

What do you call the person who graduated last in their class at medical school ?

Doctor

If it's possible to have a leg amputated during an appendectomy, it's certainly possible to get someone at a Harley dealership who doesn't know or doesn't care if something is done at all; let alone correctly. You pay your money and you take your chances. The only thing I'll farm out is machine shop work, even then, I'm extremely selective about who does it. The other benefit is that my bike is always first in line. Will I ever re-coup the money I have in tools, lifts, a tire machine and all the rest ? NEVER. But I know it's right and if I happen to break 2000 miles from home I can fix it or make do. If I can't, at least I know what needs to be done and ain't having no smoke blown up my *ss.