Originally Posted by Dynamick

Originally Posted by Cbyway

After monitoring Brandonsmiths thread over in the M8 section it leaves me with questions. How much training and additional yearly update training do these techs receive to be qualified to work on these bikes? Especially new models with new motors and technology.

I love this new bike and Harley's in general and as of yet I have had zero issues. Please, don't take this as bitching, or trashing the MoCo in any shape or form. Furthermore, my intention is not to start a clusterf%^* here. As a consumer and owner of one of these motorcycles, my expectation of confidence in these techs ability should not be an issue. But, after reading his thread my confidence level has diminished even further.

I realize these techs are "trained and certified" but does that really mean anything? Does a tech who was trained and certified in 2012, employed at a dealership since, receive additional training in 2016 prior to the M8's arrival in 2017? If so, is it adequate? Is it possible these guys just learn as they go with issues new to them using my bike possibly as a straight line to the learning curve.

I realize these techs are mechanics and a tech with one year on the job has way more experience than I ever will. However, I purchased and have gone through the 2018 service manual. This manual is so easy and detailed I feel confident enough that even I could perform any task it explains. Problem is I don't have the space, all the specialty tools or the time. Nor do I have the ability to just throw someone else's money at the problem hoping to solve the issue.

How is it that Brandonsmith had to explain to the service manager and tech the proper way to check his fluids? Brandon, knew about the tranny migration issue and had to make them aware of related bulletin. The tech initially thought his bike was migrating oil not trans fluid.
The tech advised him the proper way to check fluids opposite of what the owners manual and service manual specify. This is basic 101 stuff everyone here knows vs trained techs and service managers.

I always assumed via human nature and probably incorrectly that the service writers at any dealership be it car, boat, rv, motorcycle etc. have a basic knowledge of the product their facility is servicing.

Maybe the "ding ding ding" lightbulb is finally going off in my head and the techs who are possibly doing service and warranty work on my bike, do not have the level of expertise equal to the consumers expectation and confidence level?

I am the production manager for a company that produces downhill drilling components for both land and offshore applications. Our specialty is making seals for already drilled sites. If someone has a problem we find the cure and make what we need with confidence. I equate this entire scenario with someone coming to our company with a problem related to components we made and designed and they know more about the issues with our stuff than we do!

Without this Forum I feel like I would just be another blind, confidence drunk consumer. This is where this site helps owners like me. Besides my job, I don't claim to know a lot about everything. My dad taught me "you will get further in life learning a little about everything vs everything about one thing"

I know very little about these bikes, but I expect the dealer I purchased it from to at least have one guy that does. Peace.

Originally Posted by BTLorys

Agreed with the hit or miss depending on the dealer. But its that way IMO at any type of dealer...Car, RV, Boat, Tractor etc...

For example I have a GMC 2500 diesel. Got it last year when they came out with the LP5 engine, and GM is still figuring out the kinks and everything with the LP5. Next week I'll have had the truck for a year and theres about 22-23,000 miles on it. Theres been a few service bulletins that have been coming out and I've been paying attention to them over on the duramax forum. Earlier this month, I was leaving the gym when I started my truck and the CEL came on, and I got a message saying "engine power reduced." It ended up being needing a new vane position actuator and the module that controls it. So naturally I am pissed as it is I have to limp it back home, wait for the dealer to open because I cant take it to my normal shop due to this being a warranty issue...anyway I call the dealer they say bring it in at 10, well look at it today.

Limp it up to the dealer, drop it off, and mentioned a couple other problems that I knew for a fact that there were service bulletins out on. I was hoping they'd pick up on that and look up some service bulletins. I also know there were TWO open recalls on it. One was for a seatbelt discrepancy with what was on the window sticker, and what is actually in the truck. The other is for an ECM update. The seatbelt one is voluntary, and I think the ECM is also but I'm not 100% sure on that one. I told the guy at the front desk to please check for any available ECM/TCM updates also.

I leave, dont hear anything all day. I wait until noon that day to call for an update. "Oh, we just pulled it in now to look at it and we'll give you a call back." Now I'm annoyed that it took nearly a day and a half to look at the thing, but still hopeful they'll have it fixed and returned to me shortly. Cutting out all of the extras, I dropped it off monday originally. Didn't get it back until friday. Calling once, sometimes twice a day looking for updates because they kept failing to call me back when they said they would. Every time I called I asked whoever picked up in the service department to please check and make sure all of the software updates have been done while I have it up there. All they kept telling me was "yeah, thats all automatic its going to have to be updated anyway when he installs the new module." I did not have a warm fuzzy feeling dealing with these guys.

I finally pick it up friday. Did a good amount of driving that weekend, 500 miles ish. MONDAY a letter shows up for me from GM, telling me that I have two open recalls. I'm thinking, this must have crossed in the mail, because I just had it up there. I called them up just to confirm they did it, and what do you know... "oh, we didnt do that....I apologize our service writer at the front desk is new and didnt know to check for recalls. Why dont you bring it back and we'll get it done..." Not only that, but there is an annoying rattling sound coming from somewhere in the front of the truck and it definitely wasnt there before.

I suppose the purpose of my little rant there was to just point out that sometimes the customer can be a bit more educated on the subject than the service department. I do take some of the blame for my situation, this was the first time I've used their service department so I wanted to at least believe a little bit they'd do the homework on the problems I mentioned and do the appropriate work and check for recalls and all of that. In the future, if I have to go back there for anything else, I'll be sure to be specific and list any service bulletin/recall work I want done.

Normally if its anything I cant do myself, it goes to my local "indy." Being the first time i've needed any warranty work, it was a new experience for me. At least I learned something.

Originally Posted by HenryT

Yeah this seems to be typical of lots of vehicle service departments. I have been looking at the new Duramax Chevys myself. Reading about all the problems you are having is making me think...?

Originally Posted by BTLorys

Honestly thats the only problem I had, and if that actuator never went out I wouldnt have ever had to go into the dealership and I would have zero complaints about the truck. It was a warranty issue so I didnt have a choice there. Other than that mess, I love it and woudnt trade it for anything. They are saying that the new LP5s are proving pretty difficult for the aftermarket tuners to crack into, so if you're into those types of mods, you may have to wait a while. Rides great, tows great... love it.

Originally Posted by Cbyway

The 99-2003 Ford, 7.3 Powerstrokes diesels had problems with cam position sensors. Some would fail early, some would last several hundred thousand miles. Everyone in the Powerstoke Forums knew more about the issue than the dealers. The fix was purchasing a $16 cam position sensor from International and easily swapping it out. I bought one when the truck was under warranty, threw it in the glove box until needed. At that time the "Dreaded CPS" threads were as prominent in the Powerstroke Forums as the Sumping or Migration threads are here.

My cps finally crapped out at 199k miles on Highway 41 in Mountain Home, Texas at 0130 in the morning. I was pulling a triple slide, triple axle 5th wheel to the hunting lease in Rocksprings. As soon as it happened I knew exactly what it was. Armed with a 10mm mini socket wrench and stubby flathead I had the part swapped and was back on the road. Ford later sent out a recall after most of the 7.3 owners had installed the International part. Very few returned to the dealer for the recall. Regardless, 350k miles later my 2002, 7.3 Powerstroke is still on the road and is nowhere near stock. I am a Ford guy and I wouldn't get rid of this truck for a new Ford diesel. They are pretty, quiet, powerful and very expensive...I just don't want all the technology and emission hassles with a new one. I hunt with guys who drive new Fords, Chevys and Rams. They all complain about DEF and emission problems but all seem to be pretty solid trucks. Unfortunately, unable to meet new standards is what killed the 7.3 but I will always be a fan. I have a new crate 7.3 motor sitting in my dads barn and will replace the original, if it ever dies.

Ironically, I certainly understand the comments by members in this forum with older Harleys who say they would never purchase a new M8. Exactly what I say when I see these new diesel trucks on the road.