While talking with the guy thats doing my 07 103 Ultra build, I picked up some interesting info. This guy knows his s##t and treats motor building like it's a cross between brain surgery and rocket science. If you call northen Illinois home, I highly recommend Heritage Harley in Lisle. This will be the 3rd motor this guy has built for me and I haven't had a single issue with his work nor have I found anything he has told me over the years to be innacurate.

First the good news. A lot of talk here and elswhere about being leary of the "new motor". Brian tells me the 07 changes to the twin cam, other than a new thottle body, are minimal. Just a 103 lower end built with parts they have been using for years. The new TB however does keep you from using any existing SE heads on the TC96. New, street legal, SE heads are available but unless you really want the SE script your better off working over the stock heads.

Good and bad news. The "Closed loop EFI" is not the self tuning mirracle we'd hope for. It will still require remapping when you do engine mods. Harley now says you can run street legal SE pipes without a remap but I think that speaks more to new pipes than it does about the EFI changes. Again very little has actually changed here either. It's just the same Delphi unit with the addition of O2 sensors in the headers. I'ts still mapped based and tunable with a SERT. The PC may need a little work to be compatable but no doubt those guy's will be on top of that. The good news is that the feedback from the O2 sensors does allow the system to vary from the map a couple of percent in reaction to riding conditions. Should help with decell poping and over all smoothness through the RPM range. Brian says he anticipates alot less time/money spent on the dyno since in many cases half or more of the tuning time is spent on those same issues. The one advantage of the PC over the SERT has always been the "on the fly" tuning ability of the PC where with the SERT the tuner must shut down, adjust the map for every little change, download the altered map and restart. again and again. This hasn't changed but SERT users should still see a significant drop in tuning costs.

More bad news. Someone at the factory must have a thing about messing with bearings. For as long as I've been working with harleys they have continued to make bearing changes that have proved to be worrysome to all and and disasterous to many. Never has the MOCO taken responsibility but they always have a 500 buck pre-packaged fix kit to sell you. (a little contradictory don't you think.) Well 07 may start a new round of this ongoing saga. This time however it's the lack of a bearing thats at issue. For some reason, for sure related to the bottom line, they have replaced the rear cam bearing with a "High tech alloy BUSHING!" . This has stalled my cam selection while Brian tries to get a consensus from cam manufactures on this subject. At least this one's easier to get at than the current crank bearing issue.

More news. Somethings up. The MOCO has started tracking our bikes download history? Now when you purchase a Stage download from the dealer it's registered to the vin of your bike Why? don't know, but it can't be a good thing. No matter though as no one should buy these piece of crap, epa trampeld maps any way exept as a base map for PC users and their backup benifit for the PC is again dimmished as even the most mild builds would run like crap if at all if the PC takes a dump.

 

I'm heading to my dealer this evening. In the past, they've been pretty shockingly frank about Harley changes. It's a family owned dealer with a few generations behind their belt, and I think they've never felt like towing the party line.

If Harley really is tracking downloads, then we've got both a major EPA compliance issue, and a major warranty compliance issue.

Ladies and gents, I'd hold off on those '07s until we know more.

Excellent work on the intel!

 

07's are 96 and SE is 110. How are you doing an 103 build on a 07?

 

LDRider said...
"Good and bad news. The "Closed loop EFI" is not the self tuning mirracle we'd hope for. It will still require remapping when you do engine mods. Harley now says you can run street legal SE pipes without a remap but I think that speaks more to new pipes than it does about the EFI changes. Again very little has actually changed here either. It's just the same Delphi unit with the addition of O2 sensors in the headers. I'ts still mapped based and tunable with a SERT. The PC may need a little work to be compatable but no doubt those guy's will be on top of that. The good news is that the feedback from the O2 sensors does allow the system to vary from the map a couple of percent in reaction to riding conditions. Should help with decell poping and over all smoothness through the RPM range. Brian says he anticipates alot less time/money spent on the dyno since in many cases half or more of the tuning time is spent on those same issues. The one advantage of the PC over the SERT has always been the "on the fly" tuning ability of the PC where with the SERT the tuner must shut down, adjust the map for every little change, download the altered map and restart. again and again. This hasn't changed but SERT users should still see a significant drop in tuning costs. "

Good stuff - thanks. I've asked about the following in several forums and threads. Slowly, but surely the truth is being revealed about exhaust.

So now there are two O2 sensors per pipe. And it's pretty much confirmed there are no cats on the 96ers. Either there's some magic yet undiscoveed or the MoCo deserves [sm=smiley20.gif] for meeting EPA emissions with no cats.

Maybe the emissions for bikes is less stringent than for cars, but I want to know how they dealt with CO, nitric oxides, and nasty hydorcarbons.

Pete

 

sleepneagle,

Got this from an article on the Buddy Stubbs HD web site, appearently for 07 the 103 CI is a bolt on up grade


Bolt-On 103 Big Bore Kit: An increase in displacement to 103 cid can be achieved by adding a bolt-on Big Bore Kit with 3.875-inch bore cylinders and matching pistons from Harley-Davidson Genuine Motor Accessories. It is no longer necessary to add a stroker kit to get to 103 cid.

 

The 96ci is a stroked 88, b.b. wich use to make 95ci now makes 103ci.

 

exactly Asuperheat, but the odd thing is that the bigger big bore kit that use to bump a 103 to 113 now only nets you 110. Obviously they must of backed down on the size of this kit. From the get go this kit was of questionable reliability do to the amount of case machine work needed to accomadate these big jugs. They probably went more conservitive on this because it's going into warrenteed bikes rather than sold as race only item.

Since some machining is still needed to go from 96 to 110 they still have to split the cases and tear down the bottom end which kicks the labor price to what a 103 used to cost on an 88.

 

>"The MOCO has started tracking our bikes download history? Now when you purchase a Stage download from the dealer it's registered to the vin of your bike Why? don't know, but it can't be a good thing. No matter though as no one should buy these piece of crap, epa trampeld maps any way exept as a base map for PC users and their backup benifit for the PC is again dimmished as even the most mild builds would run like crap if at all if the PC takes a dump<"

I was told that this is for future warrantee issues. HD is swaying heavily to denying any warrantee work to a modified engine, even if it is SE sold by none other than HD. Although this has been the official written policy for some time, service writers have been able to get most problems taken care of. Apparently HD wants to control that more by having the computer automatically inform them of any changes. The newer radios also have to be electronically matched the the bike they are being installed in.

 

Sorry, but I found out that "SOLID" was a bit of an overstatement. "My Guy" while still someone I trust to do my work, isn't the guru I thought.

ShovelHead Bob PM'd me with the following clarifications:

Here goes on some clarification....

1) That Throttle body is already a year old, not new, buy any standard. Only change is 25 deg injectors across the board...

The motor is a stroked 06 Dyna Motor in the Touring platform, and a redesign for the Softail platform....

2) The Closed Loop system WILL tune itself up to 30% of the Installed Fuel Table.... Automobiles tune at around 18-20%. Meaning whatever Map is installed, the ECM will vary and learn/adjust 30% of the established values...

3) HD has beed tracking ECM flashes for a couple of years now.... That is how the dealer gets billed for them, it happens at least weekly, when the Digital Tech Computer synchronizes with the Server in Milwaukee....

Date, time, VIN and calibration data.....

 

I heard the new seats cause severe jock itch........some of the dealers are offering a free spray can of itch-no-mo with every new bike.........true![sm=icon_ladiesman.gif]