M8 sumping issues are fake
#101
07-11-2018, 03:08 PM
Grand HDF Member
It should be obvious to everyone that sumping can, but does not occur in all M8 bikes. Big bores are more prone to be affected, Lastly the oil cooled 107's . I hope the 2019 bikes put this issue behind us cause we should all be sick of hearing about it.
I dont know how much testing S&S did on their pump but there has been little real on the road testing by the public yet. I love the M8 engine, My current motor will see a S&S upgrade in the cam chest soon or a 2019 will be in my garage if they do have a new case design.
In the meantime, I just click off miles with my 2018 that is playing nice so far.
I dont know how much testing S&S did on their pump but there has been little real on the road testing by the public yet. I love the M8 engine, My current motor will see a S&S upgrade in the cam chest soon or a 2019 will be in my garage if they do have a new case design.
In the meantime, I just click off miles with my 2018 that is playing nice so far.
#102
07-11-2018, 04:40 PM
Grand HDF Member
Maybe look technical service bulletin up before you post?
Technical Service Bulletin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techni...rvice_Bulletin
Technical Service Bulletins, or TSBs, are recommended procedures for repairing vehicles. They are a form of diagnosis. Not to be confused with recalls, a TSB is issued by a vehicle manufacturer when there are several occurrences of an unanticipated problem. TSBs can range from vehicle-specific to covering entire product lines and break down the specified repair into a step-by-step process. While sometimes written by engineers employed by OEMs, the majority are authored by the first automotive technician to come up with a repair procedure. Because certain problems may have more than one cause and there is sometimes more than one way to fix a problem, it's somewhat common for there to be more than one TSB for the same problem.
Technical Service Bulletin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techni...rvice_Bulletin
Technical Service Bulletins, or TSBs, are recommended procedures for repairing vehicles. They are a form of diagnosis. Not to be confused with recalls, a TSB is issued by a vehicle manufacturer when there are several occurrences of an unanticipated problem. TSBs can range from vehicle-specific to covering entire product lines and break down the specified repair into a step-by-step process. While sometimes written by engineers employed by OEMs, the majority are authored by the first automotive technician to come up with a repair procedure. Because certain problems may have more than one cause and there is sometimes more than one way to fix a problem, it's somewhat common for there to be more than one TSB for the same problem.
There are definitely several instances of sumping out there. It needs a TSB because it is a complicated issue. But the presence of a TSB in no way indicates that it is a wide spread, rampant problem, which is the notion I was addressing.
But if you want to get picky over words and entirely miss the point, hey, go right ahead. I have pretty much given up on the whole sumping discussion. Sumping exists, it is extremely rare, it is much more common in Stage IV CVOs, if you haven't voided your warranty then Harley will take care of you. And if you have voided your warranty then maybe the S&S pump will set you straight. Really nothing more that can be said about it.
/Out
Last edited by FatBob2018; 07-11-2018 at 04:42 PM.
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Bumpandrun (07-12-2018)
#103
07-11-2018, 10:42 PM
Maybe look up the meaning of "several" before getting all snarky?
There are definitely several instances of sumping out there. It needs a TSB because it is a complicated issue. But the presence of a TSB in no way indicates that it is a wide spread, rampant problem, which is the notion I was addressing.
But if you want to get picky over words and entirely miss the point, hey, go right ahead. I have pretty much given up on the whole sumping discussion. Sumping exists, it is extremely rare, it is much more common in Stage IV CVOs, if you haven't voided your warranty then Harley will take care of you. And if you have voided your warranty then maybe the S&S pump will set you straight. Really nothing more that can be said about it.
/Out
There are definitely several instances of sumping out there. It needs a TSB because it is a complicated issue. But the presence of a TSB in no way indicates that it is a wide spread, rampant problem, which is the notion I was addressing.
But if you want to get picky over words and entirely miss the point, hey, go right ahead. I have pretty much given up on the whole sumping discussion. Sumping exists, it is extremely rare, it is much more common in Stage IV CVOs, if you haven't voided your warranty then Harley will take care of you. And if you have voided your warranty then maybe the S&S pump will set you straight. Really nothing more that can be said about it.
/Out
Some M8 bike owners reported that they did NOT display signs of sumping until 10000 miles. My first (of 3 engines that sumped) had 4500 miles on it when it sumped. Personally having followed the issue closely, I believe HD has been making “running changes” to the M8 manufacturing since it launched. My opinion is that M8 bikes built between Aug 2016 and April/May of 2018 are at the greatest risk of sumping. I expect MORE reporting of sumping from owners that bought their M8 bikes during this period as they crank up more miles and more riding conditions.
Its also my opinion that there will be LESS reports of sumping, if any, from M8 bike owners that have bikes built AFTER April/May 2018. But thats just my opinion.
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jamala00 (07-12-2018)
#104
07-12-2018, 01:09 AM
Road Captain
Those who have experienced sumping, and take the time to write here are doing a service to all of us who have M8s that are also susceptible to the same issue. If somewhere down the road one of us is in the same boat we'll benefit from the posts we've read here by those that had it before us. That's one of the reasons boards like this exist, and help those that frequent them.
Really sorry for the guys who had to resolve a sumping episode but still trying to get my head around
why you would sing the same song as JPoo who,like you,has had no sumping issue and If he did it
would be the first reported case of a 2015 Twin Cam sump!
#105
07-12-2018, 08:02 AM
Road Warrior
You say you're only Sump Singing to Help people? Guess what? It's not working!
Really sorry for the guys who had to resolve a sumping episode but still trying to get my head around
why you would sing the same song as JPoo who,like you,has had no sumping issue and If he did it
would be the first reported case of a 2015 Twin Cam sump!
#107
07-12-2018, 02:42 PM
Road Warrior
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#108
07-12-2018, 10:47 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
It should be obvious to everyone that sumping can, but does not occur in all M8 bikes. Big bores are more prone to be affected, Lastly the oil cooled 107's . I hope the 2019 bikes put this issue behind us cause we should all be sick of hearing about it.
I dont know how much testing S&S did on their pump but there has been little real on the road testing by the public yet. I love the M8 engine, My current motor will see a S&S upgrade in the cam chest soon or a 2019 will be in my garage if they do have a new case design.
In the meantime, I just click off miles with my 2018 that is playing nice so far.
I dont know how much testing S&S did on their pump but there has been little real on the road testing by the public yet. I love the M8 engine, My current motor will see a S&S upgrade in the cam chest soon or a 2019 will be in my garage if they do have a new case design.
In the meantime, I just click off miles with my 2018 that is playing nice so far.
#109
07-13-2018, 05:23 AM
If you are referring to me and my latest engine (4th) I NEVER stated I had ANY evidence that the engine case was redesigned on the latest M8 engines. I stated facts that you can use to reach any conclusion you wish:
1) my original 2017 CVO Limited (Oct 2016) engine with Stage IV kit (dealer installed -Feb 2017) sumped and failed after 4500 miles (warranty covered)
2) the 2nd engine from June 2017 with stage IV kit (dealer installed) sumped and failed after only 500 miles (warranty covered)
3) the 3rd engine from Aug 2017 was ridden in stock form (114) for 2000 miles and in March 2018 was returned to Stage IV under warranty
4) this 3rd engine with Dealer installed Stage IV kit sumped and failed in a few hundred miles (warranty covered)
5) HD built a complete Stage IV 117 engine at the factory and shipped it (April 2018) for installation by my dealer (fully covered under warranty).
6) this engine has run for 2000 miles. I posted pics of the case part #s and engine # from the factory engine. It does not match any part # for any M8 in ANY HD parts catalogue.
7) same rider, same riding conditions, no sumping on this 4th engine
8) I have no idea what if any changes were made to the internals of this 4th stage IV engine as it was assembled as a complete engine including TB, injectors and plumbing at the factory. There was even left over fuel in the lines which clearly meant it was run on a dyno
9) my dealer told me it was a 2019 engine based on the engine code
10) I’ve seen posts that dozens of others in the past 2 months have received “similar” replacement engines.
11) If Harley HAS made case changes to these replacement engines, only they would know. The rest of us won’t know till the 2019 bikes, Service manuals and parts diagrams are released to the public in late Aug 2018.
These my friend, are the facts. Reach whatever conclusion you want as to what they mean, but the facts are the facts.
1) my original 2017 CVO Limited (Oct 2016) engine with Stage IV kit (dealer installed -Feb 2017) sumped and failed after 4500 miles (warranty covered)
2) the 2nd engine from June 2017 with stage IV kit (dealer installed) sumped and failed after only 500 miles (warranty covered)
3) the 3rd engine from Aug 2017 was ridden in stock form (114) for 2000 miles and in March 2018 was returned to Stage IV under warranty
4) this 3rd engine with Dealer installed Stage IV kit sumped and failed in a few hundred miles (warranty covered)
5) HD built a complete Stage IV 117 engine at the factory and shipped it (April 2018) for installation by my dealer (fully covered under warranty).
6) this engine has run for 2000 miles. I posted pics of the case part #s and engine # from the factory engine. It does not match any part # for any M8 in ANY HD parts catalogue.
7) same rider, same riding conditions, no sumping on this 4th engine
8) I have no idea what if any changes were made to the internals of this 4th stage IV engine as it was assembled as a complete engine including TB, injectors and plumbing at the factory. There was even left over fuel in the lines which clearly meant it was run on a dyno
9) my dealer told me it was a 2019 engine based on the engine code
10) I’ve seen posts that dozens of others in the past 2 months have received “similar” replacement engines.
11) If Harley HAS made case changes to these replacement engines, only they would know. The rest of us won’t know till the 2019 bikes, Service manuals and parts diagrams are released to the public in late Aug 2018.
These my friend, are the facts. Reach whatever conclusion you want as to what they mean, but the facts are the facts.
Last edited by Heatwave; 07-13-2018 at 05:27 AM.
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#110
07-13-2018, 05:25 AM
