I read all of the above and want to say thanks - I'm stressing about winding up with a NEW Vin title and subsaquintly devaluing my 59 Pan. Heres a break down of thins to do (1) go to Az DMV and Cal DMV and ask for a certified copy of my original Az title that I gave the Cal DMV in 1982 (2) look around for a DMV service that specializes in Old Halreys to represent me with providing me a sanity check with my options before I go to the CHP or DMV officials (3) make laison with a knowledable AAA supervisor or cleark that might be willing to assist me with getting my title corrected to only show the engine serial number(4)dig up all of my past registartion documents for my Pan and build a binder with all supporting documents. (5) read all of the Cal DMV referances that speaks about VIN corrections etc.(6) remove the engine skid plate and document the bottom engine case numbers along with the tranny belly numbers. once all of this is done rethink the situation and determin if the RISK is worth proceeding. My gut feeling is to get this corrected - I've looked at my bikes neck area and there is no numbers like other HD's - I'll measure the thickness and compare with other stock 58-64 HD necks to be sure no modifications were done. I've owned my pan for 33 years (3yr's AZ and 30 yr's Ca) and feel that I need to get this resolved now knowing that my pink has an erroniuos VIN. I remember the DMV clerk kept telling me in 1982 that all bikes had VIN's and mine was no exceptions - he finally documented one of the frame embossed numbers and said ok this will work and I never thought for one bit that he was incorrect. I was 19 years old then. I had no clue that older harleys only had engine serial numbers. as per; Bruce Palmers Authentic Restoration Guilde, Harley Davidsion operation manales and even Cal DMV PTF files. If anyone has any other gouge for me or my pl;an of action - please fire away. PS I'm a disabled Marine from this last barn dance in IRAQ - and my days are numbered here on mother green - my motivation in getting this corrected is so that I may hand my old pan to my grandson with out any problems before I chop out. thanks again!

 

Apprecate any info with my problem - I bought a 1959 HD in 1978 in Arizona and was transfered (USMC)to california in 1982 - In 1982 I went to the Cal DMV to regester my Pan and was given a new title that showed my correct motor serial number and a raised frame ebossing number that was located on the back part of the frame - as a new VIN on the VIN section of the titile - I didnt catch this DMV error till years later - I'm bother by the fact that the Cal DMV offical made a mistake by listing that bogus frame part number as my VIN - So do I go back to DMV and tell them to remove the VIN? or do I just suck it up and continue to run with a title that shows a correct motor serial number and an incorrect VIN number(embossed frame number). my gut feeling is that its only a matter of time that a CHP officer pulls me over that knows/understand that 1959 Harley's only had engine serial numbers and possibly inpounds my bike - or do i go to DMV only for them to have me go to CHP and get blue sticker/new assigned VIN that will devalue my bike. if anyone out there could steer me the right way/would be apprcated. Note: When I registered my Bike in 82 I rember surrendering my Arizona title to Cal DMV that only listed the engine number - and am wondering if I could possibly still get that from Az or Cal DMV section.

 

Guarantee that DMV will not have a copy of the original paperwork from 1982. Why would they?

DMV specialist in HD stuff? Good luck with that. Most are just your average 9-to-5 Duffle-Bag-Drag workers who have no ability or inclination to think outside the box.

Unless you are a AAA member you most likely will not get any help from them. Even if you are they are not a "specialist" when it comes to what you are referring to.

The "raised number" you are referring to sounds like a casting part number. Can you post the numbers please?

HD did not make vin numbers a part of the frame until 1970. There are casting numbers though which will get you in the ballpark as far as the frame year as well as frame configuration.

In Kali, DMV is supposed to register title by vin only prior to 1970. With that said it does not mean it always occurs that way.

Guess my thought is that as long as the vin is good, you are probably in good shape. And if you do get stopped and they make the inquiry about the frame number, you point to the raised casting number and blame it on the bozo from DMV and give them the story.

 

I just called AZ DMV - and they have no records - I've been a member if AAA for 5 years but seems like their transfixed in the norm and dont seem interested. I'm diging up all of my past az registrations and the license's plates they issed for my bike. I found one lady that knew off hand the old harleys did'nt have VIN's just engine numbers. I'm hoping for the best - and am removing my engine skid plate to log the engine belly numbers and tranny number. I have a letter from HD that states engine seral numbers for those early years/no vins were stampled (just engine #) for vin. thanks Panz for the info!

 

My title and registration has embossed - not raised - numbers from the right side top tube adjacent to the oil bag. When I bought it the pink had those same numbers on it.
The numbers are "DRFXXXXX"
The previous owner told me that although civilian HD's didn't have frame numbers in 1960, police bikes did have them and that's why that number's there. I've had the bike since 1982 and had no problems when stopped. I took my friends word for it, but maybe Panz4ever knows for sure if those are actual frame #'s..?

 

I bought my motor (pieces in a box) with a title in 1978. My frame has no vin #. The motor has a DRF vin number stamped where the harley motor vin is supposed to be. I took it to Sturgis in 2010. When I first planned on going, I searched for the origin of the title. Paid the great state of Illinois to do a title search. No records past 5 years.

DRF means Department Registry File.I think it is stamped on stolen vehicles by California. This I found on another forum www.hydra-glide.com

I carry a copy of the original title with me when I ride so my bike is not taken from me.