Thanks for the reply...See Wizards post above...

Cheers...Sparra

 

Wiz's reply is based on a new feature that will soon be released. It's not there yet though so in the meantime, you need a laptop to record data.

 

Something has got to give; when I'm at work, it's a nice day, when I'm home it's raining. Lord help me, I need to work on my Vtune runs

 

I'll trade ya the rain for 100+ degree temps everyday!

 

The flight recorder will come out Tuesday, I think. That will make one to be able to record without a laptop. This will ONLY work with a BLUE VCI, as the black one has no memory.

But... for those wishing to gain the best tune they can? I will always recommend to an owner to use the laptop on the bike, along with a monitor to view the Histogram in the making.

I have noticed that a whole lotta guys think with the PV, that you record a few runs and it is done. That is NOT the case at all. That is NOT a tune at all. For a PV OR a TTS, the idea is all about gathering the CORRECT data. TTS does, indeed, have a better interface for collecting data..... if a monitor and laptop is used. In that way? Folks get the exact same screen that Dyno Tuners get to use.

I am sure a lot of guys will think using the Flight Recorder will be right up next to sliced bread. I, myself, do not. That will put those guys back to hit-or-miss data collecting.

It is my own opinion that TTS can collect better data, and make a better 'tune' by using its ability to USE a computer while collecting data. Allowing us to see a Dyno type Histogram is it's number one feature, IMHO. By having a laptop hooked up, like a dyno shop uses a PC... one can SEE not only what areas data is being collected in, but whether there is ENOUGH data collected to be able to justify a change in VEs. On a PV, for example, to get this same level of confidence, one gathers data, using their own little screen, and then... to be sure of their deltas of change have to DL to a PC to manipulate the data collected. BOTH systems, to gather PROPER data, needs the computing power of a PC to help. Why not ride with that computing power with you? That's my own... lonely... position on DIY tuning. A 7" cheapie $100 monitor mounted on an old mirror (Like Nutz and I have) works wonders. This IS the only way to get cells filled out, IMHO. Folks say not to worry... if you don't hit a cell while normally riding... not to worry. Again, I view this as false, from my own trials and errors. Each cell interacts with all the cells that touch it. Each cell one hits, there are eight other cells that influence that cell. So... for the best we can hope for, tuning wise, is to hit all of those cells 'out of range' as well as the cells we DO hit easily.

In truth? Using a PC directly in conjunction with cell data gathering is the TOP reason I like the TTS over the others. If another tuner came to market that used a PC in a similar fashion... then I would simply HAVE to try that tuner, too. Or, if PV came out with an off board monitor and the ability to use a PC while gathering DATA, that, too... would be a good deal.

Right now? In my own mind... nothing beats the raw computing power of Win 7 with an I5 or I7 chipset.... while tuning.

I have used a PC laptop on a bagger with a 'tune pack' installed ( in place of the trunk), or... use a backpak and wear the PC while riding.

 

Hello Wizard
I was particularly interested in your throttle blip technique for cam tuning.
I had used the cam analyzer to fix the ivo and was hoping I could lock in the ivc with the throttle blip technique.
My blips are not nearly as clear cut as yours.
I have three scandata files using the ivc from the cam estimator , and one up and one down from there.
I realise you use the throttle blip technique to fix the ivo as well as the ivc.
How often is your final ivo different from the cam analyzer ivo?
Thanks

 

For those who want to know what the heck we are talking about, click here.

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/11334690-post3869.html


The IVO found in the analyzer matches the IVO tool about 50% of the time. Depending on the build and the kPa at idle and just off idle with load I may use the next smaller number in IVO. What gets used is the best match of idle smoothness, less vibration at the floorboard and best torque curve to 3000 RPM's. I personally have found that after 3000 RPM's the IVO and IVC means nothing.

The only way you can use the cam analyzer for IVC is with a Dyno with brake set at a constant load during a 3500 RPM 3 minute data run.

The blip technique will not assist you in setting the IVC, sorry. Luckily there are only three set points. 3 is the most widely used, 2 is used about 30% of the time. If you have a HOT build then you may get to use 1, doubt it though.

My blip technique is for throttle response, immediate throttle response, without lag or stumble. It's not in the manual nor can it be found anywhere else but here. It's not something that a person can put down as an instructive diagram or discussion. One must understand the proper table use which gives you a "feel" for what's going on with the motor.

This must be done after several VTune sessions under 3500 RPM's or it will NOT work.

The tables I use for this while working with the blip and IVC are:
ARF/Lambda
EGR
Timing at idle
Throttle Blade Control

Fine tuning of this I may use, but not always in addition to the above is:
Spark Temperature Correction
Closed Throttle Spark
Idle Spark Control Gain
Idle Spark Control Max

Visual representations include:
Throttle marking @ 10% and 20% with painters tape
Throttle body butterfly opening

The rest is "feel"

Once you have the data and sharp/equal blip points on the graph you must VTune again.

Now, not everyone will go this far and you really don't have to get this deep in tuning your motor but if you have stumble at off idle then you may want to use the same approach.

 

Thankyou Mr Wizard.
I thought I was nearly there with the cam tune!
I might have to get a few more tables sorted and come back to it to see if it needs to be tweaked!
There's a lot of good info there that I need to digest.
Thanks

 

Nice hear about "The flight recorder", having tooo much problems using my laptops/netbooks.

 

What problems? Once the laptop is configured correctly, it works like a charm.