First time DIY oil change - drain plug analysis please
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Road Master
Joined: Sep 2013
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From: Southern Maine / Seacoast NH
Last edited by dandrumheller; Nov 19, 2016 at 11:10 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2013
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From: Great State of Canada
Yep - ordered the oil from Amazon, and added a bag of 100 o-rings for like $5. Torqued the plugs to 15.4 ft/lbs (cause 185 in/lbs was an easy setting on my wrench at the bottom of the spec.). You are correct on the spec. Learned this the hard way trying to do a clutch adjustment on my Sporty a few years ago - stripped a derby cover screw trying to torque it with a beam type ft/lb wrench. Got an in/lb click type wrench after that...think the only time I've used the ft/lb wrench since then was changing slip-ons.
And here I go with the 'oh crap' mode...
Originally Posted by Retrop 
Call me crazy, but that primary plug looks like it has way,way more than 4000 miles on it since last fluid change.
Call me crazy, but that primary plug looks like it has way,way more than 4000 miles on it since last fluid change.
And here I go with the 'oh crap' mode...
Good work re the "O"-rings. No need to get fancy brown, green, striped,,, whatever expensive "O"-rings. Simple neoprene black ones in THE CORRECT SIZE is all you require. Keep stored ones sealed and/or coated with a light rub (not aerosol) of silicone,,, (if you're pedantic like me
). Consider using Teflon paste rather than tape on the plugs. This avoids the possibility of tape fragments breaking off and circulating within, (clogging) the gallery. If you use tape, a single wrap kept away from the 2 threads near the tip is plenty. People get carried away with T-tape,, "dunno why". The "O"-rings make the seal, not wraps of T-tape.
Torquing is fine but "get a feel" too. As someone has pointed out already, too little torque is an easy fix, stripped pans, not so easy. Torque wrenches aren't infallible and simply aping away on em waiting for a click can lead to tears. These suckers have long handles and those plugs are mighty small.
Red Line is great stuff, I use it too. Know, however, it is Ester based which among other things imparts a naturally high detergency to the oil. IF you see an unusual amount of guck in oil or on the plugs over the next couple of RL oil changes, it's likely the RL doing what it does and changes will clear up in due course. To an extent, synthetics in general are like this and if the Spectro the Dealer used was a synthetic follow-up to regular Dino use, that "may" account for the depositing you see now, (I'm in no way sure about this, just sayin).
IMHO,, don't extend oil changes ! Stick to scheduled changes ! Synthetics, including RL, are superior oils for a multitude of reasons which you can easily find on google. If, however, you don't agree with the technical benefits of a synthetic and need to extend changes to justify using it,, don't. Just use a Dino and stick to scheduled changes.
Apologies if I've beaten the issue to death. If you feel I've overdone it, don't read the above ^^^^^.
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Road Master
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,091
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From: Southern Maine / Seacoast NH
No biggie at this point but,, IMHO, first order of business with any pre-owned machine is an oil change. Then you "KNOW" what you've got in there and how many miles is on it. Its the ultimate reassurance.
This is what I would have done immediately, except that the dealer I bought it from did a fresh fluid change on it prior to selling it to me - all 3 holes plus brakes, with Spectro.
Good work re the "O"-rings. No need to get fancy brown, green, striped,,, whatever expensive "O"-rings. Simple neoprene black ones in THE CORRECT SIZE is all you require. Keep stored ones sealed and/or coated with a light rub (not aerosol) of silicone,,, (if you're pedantic like me).
Consider using Teflon paste rather than tape on the plugs. This avoids the possibility of tape fragments breaking off and circulating within, (clogging) the gallery. If you use tape, a single wrap kept away from the 2 threads near the tip is plenty. People get carried away with T-tape,, "dunno why". The "O"-rings make the seal, not wraps of T-tape.
Funny you mention this - as I had teflon paste, but no tape handy, so that's what I used.
Torquing is fine but "get a feel" too. As someone has pointed out already, too little torque is an easy fix, stripped pans, not so easy. Torque wrenches aren't infallible and simply aping away on em waiting for a click can lead to tears. These suckers have long handles and those plugs are mighty small.
Tried doing this, sort of, with the transmission plug, as its' easier to get my torque wrench on than the crankcase plug. Got it gently hand tight with the regular wrench, checked with torque wrench, then tightened a little more to 'feel' it with the regular wrench. Finished off with torque wrench. I'm pretty gun-shy about over torquing, so I'm always going slow and easy.
Red Line is great stuff, I use it too. Know, however, it is Ester based which among other things imparts a naturally high detergency to the oil. IF you see an unusual amount of guck in oil or on the plugs over the next couple of RL oil changes, it's likely the RL doing what it does and changes will clear up in due course. To an extent, synthetics in general are like this and if the Spectro the Dealer used was a synthetic follow-up to regular Dino use, that "may" account for the depositing you see now, (I'm in no way sure about this, just sayin).
I think Spectro primary oil is dino - but I'll have to take a look. Don't have all the maintenance records on the bike but I have some - it had a 20K service at a harley dealer prior to getting to the dealer I bought from - but no indication if it was Syn or dino at that service.
IMHO,, don't extend oil changes ! Stick to scheduled changes ! Synthetics, including RL, are superior oils for a multitude of reasons which you can easily find on google. If, however, you don't agree with the technical benefits of a synthetic and need to extend changes to justify using it,, don't. Just use a Dino and stick to scheduled changes.
[COLOR="darkorange"]I typically ride somewhere around 5k miles per year (thanks to a bunch of other stuff going on and only rarely able to take the bike to work) Got about 6K this year, but that was split between the Deluxe and the Limited. I did this one a little early as yesterday may have been my last riding day before the snow (and salt) flies this year, and I wanted to see if I was in for work/trouble over the winter. Also figured it's probably better to put it up for the winter with fresh oil rather than stuff with 4K on it./COLOR]
Apologies if I've beaten the issue to death. If you feel I've overdone it, don't read the above ^^^^^.
This is what I would have done immediately, except that the dealer I bought it from did a fresh fluid change on it prior to selling it to me - all 3 holes plus brakes, with Spectro.
Good work re the "O"-rings. No need to get fancy brown, green, striped,,, whatever expensive "O"-rings. Simple neoprene black ones in THE CORRECT SIZE is all you require. Keep stored ones sealed and/or coated with a light rub (not aerosol) of silicone,,, (if you're pedantic like me
). Consider using Teflon paste rather than tape on the plugs. This avoids the possibility of tape fragments breaking off and circulating within, (clogging) the gallery. If you use tape, a single wrap kept away from the 2 threads near the tip is plenty. People get carried away with T-tape,, "dunno why". The "O"-rings make the seal, not wraps of T-tape.
Funny you mention this - as I had teflon paste, but no tape handy, so that's what I used.
Torquing is fine but "get a feel" too. As someone has pointed out already, too little torque is an easy fix, stripped pans, not so easy. Torque wrenches aren't infallible and simply aping away on em waiting for a click can lead to tears. These suckers have long handles and those plugs are mighty small.
Tried doing this, sort of, with the transmission plug, as its' easier to get my torque wrench on than the crankcase plug. Got it gently hand tight with the regular wrench, checked with torque wrench, then tightened a little more to 'feel' it with the regular wrench. Finished off with torque wrench. I'm pretty gun-shy about over torquing, so I'm always going slow and easy.
Red Line is great stuff, I use it too. Know, however, it is Ester based which among other things imparts a naturally high detergency to the oil. IF you see an unusual amount of guck in oil or on the plugs over the next couple of RL oil changes, it's likely the RL doing what it does and changes will clear up in due course. To an extent, synthetics in general are like this and if the Spectro the Dealer used was a synthetic follow-up to regular Dino use, that "may" account for the depositing you see now, (I'm in no way sure about this, just sayin).
I think Spectro primary oil is dino - but I'll have to take a look. Don't have all the maintenance records on the bike but I have some - it had a 20K service at a harley dealer prior to getting to the dealer I bought from - but no indication if it was Syn or dino at that service.
IMHO,, don't extend oil changes ! Stick to scheduled changes ! Synthetics, including RL, are superior oils for a multitude of reasons which you can easily find on google. If, however, you don't agree with the technical benefits of a synthetic and need to extend changes to justify using it,, don't. Just use a Dino and stick to scheduled changes.
[COLOR="darkorange"]I typically ride somewhere around 5k miles per year (thanks to a bunch of other stuff going on and only rarely able to take the bike to work) Got about 6K this year, but that was split between the Deluxe and the Limited. I did this one a little early as yesterday may have been my last riding day before the snow (and salt) flies this year, and I wanted to see if I was in for work/trouble over the winter. Also figured it's probably better to put it up for the winter with fresh oil rather than stuff with 4K on it./COLOR]
Apologies if I've beaten the issue to death. If you feel I've overdone it, don't read the above ^^^^^.
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Joined: Feb 2011
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From: Michigan
Maybe its just me but compared to my 14 RK drain plugs (just under 28,000) those drain plugs look kind of nasty, especially the Primary plug.
I run Amsoil in engine & tranny, Mobil 1 20-50 in Primary, also rarely change out o-rings if they look good I reuse them, and have never used any teflon tapes, just the o-rings.
I run Amsoil in engine & tranny, Mobil 1 20-50 in Primary, also rarely change out o-rings if they look good I reuse them, and have never used any teflon tapes, just the o-rings.
Last edited by Bricklayer; Nov 20, 2016 at 09:06 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
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From: Great State of Canada
Also figured it's probably better to put it up for the winter with fresh oil rather than stuff with 4K on it.
During winter storage water can build up due to condensation and this can contribute to hydrolysis, (acid formation). Your oil's additives package contains TBN (total base number) ingredients which fight acid buildup but which do deplete with oil use. Fresh oil = high TBN component = good. Also, don't periodically start your engine during winter storage as this accelerates the condensation buildup from which acid forms. In the spring, start her up and go for a good ride (1 hour or so) to get the engine up to running temp (above 212 deg) so as to vaporize the condensate.
I'm not a mechanic whose seen the guts of 000's of bikes to base opinions on. This is just conventional wisdom as one would find in countless articles and internet posts.
Bottom line for me is that motorcycles, particularly in Canada, are very expensive and oil is cheap. I will (have) change(d) oil with less than 500 mi on it before winter storage. I now space my changes, as best I can, through the riding season so as to have at least a couple of thousand miles on my oil prior to my winter storage change. I figure if I'm gonna change every 3000 mi (5000 km) and just before winter storage as well, I may as well space out changes to get equal(ish) amounts of riding out of each change. I change transmission and primary oil every time as well. Again, its only oil and I've never heard of harm being done by changing too often.
My methods will generate a lot of eye rolls
, but our fluctuating Canadian temps, long cold winters and cold morning starts during riding season, have me offsetting things through very frequent changes, the use of a, (thin when cold), Red Line Ester synthetic and a permanent "high flow" oil filter. "Just me" .
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Joined: Nov 2008
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And here I go with the 'oh crap' mode... [/QUOTE]
I don't know what the "oh crap" mode is...but you asked for comments. You got opinions as to what other people saw when they looked at your plugs. Your crankcase plug looked better than the primary plug. Many owners do not change both the primary and transmission fluids when they change the crankcase fluids at the 5000 mile point. That might explain why your primary plug looked to have more debris on it than the crankcase plug. Just speculating here.
[/QUOTE]I don't know what the "oh crap" mode is...but you asked for comments. You got opinions as to what other people saw when they looked at your plugs. Your crankcase plug looked better than the primary plug. Many owners do not change both the primary and transmission fluids when they change the crankcase fluids at the 5000 mile point. That might explain why your primary plug looked to have more debris on it than the crankcase plug. Just speculating here.
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Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Sep 2013
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From: Southern Maine / Seacoast NH
And here I go with the 'oh crap' mode... :icon_emm
I don't know what the "oh crap" mode is...but you asked for comments. You got opinions as to what other people saw when they looked at your plugs. Your crankcase plug looked better than the primary plug. Many owners do not change both the primary and transmission fluids when they change the crankcase fluids at the 5000 mile point. That might explain why your primary plug looked to have more debris on it than the crankcase plug. Just speculating here.
I don't know what the "oh crap" mode is...but you asked for comments. You got opinions as to what other people saw when they looked at your plugs. Your crankcase plug looked better than the primary plug. Many owners do not change both the primary and transmission fluids when they change the crankcase fluids at the 5000 mile point. That might explain why your primary plug looked to have more debris on it than the crankcase plug. Just speculating here.
I know the bike had fresh oil in all 3 holes when I got it (dealer changed all 3 plus brakes) so I know that's the same 4k miles on all 3 plugs.
