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Not trying to pick on this, but this is incorrect. The pump being gear driven as it is, will not change. Let think things out and forget what the rep said. The pump can only do what it can and it has no idea about anything other than RPM as that is what controls it. So in the case of a 107 displacement or a 120 displacement the same pump will do the same thing. At a given RPM BOTH the suction side and the pressure side pumps will do the exact same thing. Now the newest pump versus the current pump may do something different but that is still unknown at this point.
What's your thinking on how a smaller orifice generating higher velocity of the moving oil impact the sump side of the pump?
What's your thinking on how a smaller orifice generating higher velocity of the moving oil impact the sump side of the pump?
Once I get the new pump I will have a better idea but not expecting a whole lot. The problem that I am worried about it the size of the hole from the oil sump up into the pump attachment point. It is already smaller than the pump inlet is now. So reducing the inlet as I have been led to believe is what they did, isn't going to change much. Now if they changed the pump feed area that is a different thing and I hope is what they are doing.
Did the Twin Cam's have this issue? and were they able to recover from it by idling the bike for a very short period?
I ask because the first time my M8 experienced sumping, it went undetected due to very short idling of the bike (on a trailer then onto a lift). The second time when the problem was caught, I got lucky and was close to the dealer so brought it directly too them. Service manager jumped on it and found a quart in the crankcase. The data point here is that the bike was able to recover from a quart of oil in the crankcase the first time within a VERY short time.
I mention this as it makes me wonder how many have the issue yet don't notice it because they went to an idle and it recovered. Question, if it happens and recovers is sumping ok?
Last edited by Macrunner; Jul 11, 2017 at 01:51 PM.
Did the Twin Cam's have this issue? and were they able to recover from it by idling the bike for a very short period?
I ask because the first time my M8 experienced sumping, it went undetected due to very short idling of the bike (on a trailer then onto a lift). The second time when the problem was caught, I got lucky and was close to the dealer so brought it directly too them. Service manager jumped on it and found a quart in the crankcase.
I mention this as it makes me wonder how many have the issue yet don't notice it because they went to an idle and it recovered. Or if this happens is sumping ok?
I wondered the same thought which motivated me to start this thread.
Did the Twin Cam's have this issue? and were they able to recover from it by idling the bike for a very short period?
I ask because the first time my M8 experienced sumping, it went undetected due to very short idling of the bike (on a trailer then onto a lift). The second time when the problem was caught, I got lucky and was close to the dealer so brought it directly too them. Service manager jumped on it and found a quart in the crankcase. The data point here is that the bike was able to recover from a quart of oil in the crankcase the first time within a VERY short time.
I mention this as it makes me wonder how many have the issue yet don't notice it because they went to an idle and it recovered. Question, if it happens and recovers is sumping ok?
I'm no expert, but I passed by a Holiday Inn Express once.... I'll take a shot..
If a twin cam is sumping while running, you have a problem. Usually caused by damaged oil pump or messed up main o-ring on cam plate. The sumping will cause loss of power, and foaming of the oil, which could lead to lack of proper lubrication... This requires immediate repair. Most sumpings I've heard about, happen after the cam plate is removed/replaced and that o-ring is usually the culprit..
Many of the twin cam softails, will allow the oil to seep past the oil pump into the cam chest/ engine case. This happens when the bike sits unused for awhile. This isn't a true sumping issue, but is frequently called sumping. If allowed to run easy for the first few minutes, the oil is pumped back up into the oil tank, and everything will be fine. This does not require immediate repair... But this is why you need to run a softail for a few minutes, before checking the oil after a period of non-use... otherwise you would think you are a low, fill it up, and when the pump returns the oil back to the tank you will get a popped out dipstick and excess oil all over your engine....
Last edited by hattitude; Jul 11, 2017 at 02:07 PM.
Did the Twin Cam's have this issue? and were they able to recover from it by idling the bike for a very short period?
I ask because the first time my M8 experienced sumping, it went undetected due to very short idling of the bike (on a trailer then onto a lift). The second time when the problem was caught, I got lucky and was close to the dealer so brought it directly too them. Service manager jumped on it and found a quart in the crankcase. The data point here is that the bike was able to recover from a quart of oil in the crankcase the first time within a VERY short time.
I mention this as it makes me wonder how many have the issue yet don't notice it because they went to an idle and it recovered. Question, if it happens and recovers is sumping ok?
Another data point that can be taken from this is that it doesn't take a stage 3/4 to have a sumping issue. Stock CVO's are just as capable.
I picked up my bike with new engine. Runs great in stock form. I have a service appt for next week for the upgrade to Stage IV. Parts counter checked and HD still has the Stage 3/4 kits scheduled for release on 7/13 (this Thursday).
I'm hoping to get some miles on the stock engine before they break it back down next week for the stage 4 upgrade.
Since HD had already shipped the new design twin-cooled oil pump (part # 62400144) to my dealer for my new stage 4 upgrade, I asked to take a look. It is identical to the stock twin-cooled oil pump except for a pressed-in bushing inside the sump oil inlet that restricts the inlet by the thickness of the bushing. Here's a few pics.
Bushing up close
You can see the bushing in the inlet side opening at the top of the picture.
Last edited by Heatwave; Jul 11, 2017 at 07:29 PM.
One thing that is interesting is that they left the spigot as cast. On early TCs it was as cast but the 2002 I have the machined the spigot but 2000 was rough cast.. 2000 had a casting split line on the spigot that wasn't good.
If that surface don't seal scavenge side will suck air and you get sumping.
The mod looks like something is happening flow to the pump.. Prototype TCs had a similar issue.
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