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Old Feb 25, 2018 | 09:55 AM
  #41  
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The one and only downside to widespread adoption of EVs is range, i.e. batter capacity and recharging time, and the race is on with every avenue being explored to improve these. Cooling is an issue to handle heat released by fast discharge during acceleration-Tesla uses active cooling in it's battery packs.

The Zero S Naked claims 223 mile range in city driving, and of course all electric motors are capable of delivering full torque from a standing start.

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/zero-s/

BTW I'm on the reservations list for a Tron Legacy Lightcycle




"The future is here, it's just not very evenly distributed" -William Gibson.
 

Last edited by shorelasHD; Feb 25, 2018 at 09:57 AM. Reason: add jpg
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Old Feb 25, 2018 | 09:55 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by shorelasHD
If you're lucky enough to have solar panels on your roof, you get to ride for free, and maybe even get off the grid entirely. Natural gas turbine power plants are 60+% efficient, and very clean compared to coal or oil fied plants-besides, point sources of "pollution" are much easier to deal with than millions of mobile polluting sources.

Hydro is great, if you can find a place to put a plant-that's why EVs are so popular in Norway-gotta love those fjords!

Windmills-not so great, expensive, finicky, maintenance intensive, and on the way out wherever they've been tried.

And the Elephant in The Room, Nuclear. Third generation nuclear power plants are safe, clean, and meltdown and proliferation proof. The only thing holding up widespread deployment are the NIMBYS (full disclosure: I have a first generation nuclear plant practically in my back yard. It's about to be shut down, which can't happen fast enough for me).

And someday we might see a real life Mr. Fusion! If we can just figure out what to do with all those pesky neutrons...
Solar panels ?? Without getting into endless debate, an awful lot of what accounting I've seen related to this is,,, hopeful in its projections and omits decommissioning costs almost universally. None I've seen work without those early days Utility surplus purchase contracts which are increasingly rare over time. Bottom line; the full cycle implementation to decommissioning lifetime benefit of solar panels is not as rosy looking as their snapshot "free power today" picture would imply. Not even close actually and coming out ahead is no slamdunk either.

Norway ? That country is so often cited in energy debates its not funny but we both know, I'm sure, that Norway is so unique in its population density vs its cheap energy resources that it can get away with LOTS of things you couldn't duplicate in the rest of the developed world. Norway's natural advantages are typically unsung when its energy achievements are lauded. In short, Norway is socialism's crowning achievement only because of the vast economic resources it is able to gobble up in support of so few people.

Norway is an energy / economic anomaly.
 
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Old Feb 25, 2018 | 10:11 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by HKMark23
Solar panels ?? Without getting into endless debate, an awful lot of what accounting I've seen related to this is,,, hopeful in its projections and omits decommissioning costs almost universally. None I've seen work without those early days Utility surplus purchase contracts which are increasingly rare over time. Bottom line; the full cycle implementation to decommissioning lifetime benefit of solar panels is not as rosy looking as their snapshot "free power today" picture would imply. Not even close actually and coming out ahead is no slamdunk either.

Norway ? That country is so often cited in energy debates its not funny but we both know, I'm sure, that Norway is so unique in its population density vs its cheap energy resources that it can get away with LOTS of things you couldn't duplicate in the rest of the developed world. Norway's natural advantages are typically unsung when its energy achievements are lauded. In short, Norway is socialism's crowning achievement only because of the vast economic resources it is able to gobble up in support of so few people.

Norway is an energy / economic anomaly.
Both points well taken. With a 20-30 year useful life, there hasn't been much though given to decommisioning costs, although with typical silicon panels, this shouldn't be excessive-panels made of exotic materials, not so much, but they're not used except in specialty applications. Panels have been and will continue to be incrementally more efficient, and new panels can always be deployed in established locations with considerable cost savings over new installations. Overall, a win!

Norway is certainly anomaly, but good on them for taking advantage of their resources-the best thing is that no other nation or group suffers directly or indirectly from their good fortune.
 
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Old Feb 25, 2018 | 10:16 AM
  #44  
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Not me
 
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Old Feb 25, 2018 | 11:49 AM
  #45  
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Whether CO2 is the bogeyman it's made out to be... Meh...

About the environmental impact of electric vehicles... From one aspect it's largely dependent on what you use to generate electricity. Depending on how electricity is generated in your neck of the woods, driving an electric vehicle could be worse than driving an ICE vehicle. There's also the total impact that includes the manufacturing of each. Building battery operated cars has a heavier environmental impact than building an ICE equivalent. EV's may or may not make up the difference over their life cycle depending on how the electricity is generated that they consume.

Anyway... That's one theory...

Another aspect is the impact of mining the materials (Nickle, Cobalt, Copper, Lithium etc...)

Personally... I don't care... If I can't ride my bike all day if I want and conveniently refuel in 5 minutes wherever and whenever I need to, I'm not much interested. ICE tech will be my choice for the foreseeable future.
 
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Old Feb 25, 2018 | 12:24 PM
  #46  
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Do we recall some of the rudimentary scientific basics we were all, (over 55 yo), taught in school like:

1. Matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

2. In the long history of scientific development, consensus has never been its ally.

3. The Scientific Method; (ok google it ).

These are the things today's Media wishes you would forget. If you recall them and think of them in light of what you hear, you cannot help but be incredulous. You don't need to be Stephen Hawking mk II to know that Neil deGrasse Tyson and David Suzuki (Canadian), for example, are shamelessly carrying the water for Big Green.

"Climategate"; something doesn't add up, but the goddamn bill for it is adding up rapidly.
 
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Old Feb 25, 2018 | 12:33 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by TriGeezer

Still...the most efficient method of storing energy, is gasoline in your gas tank.
Nah. Uranium and Plutonium are much more efficient mass for mass.

A nuclear powered motorcycle would be super cool. No need to fuel it ever!
 
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Old Feb 25, 2018 | 12:35 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by HKMark23
Do we recall some of the rudimentary scientific basics we were all, (over 55 yo), taught in school like:

1. Matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed.
Umm.....but......Albert said that E=mc2
 
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Old Feb 25, 2018 | 12:46 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by adm
Umm.....but......Albert said that E=mc2
Yep, energy converts to matter and vice versa. Neither is ever destroyed or created, hence the Higgs field and the Boson which confirms its existance but we may be getting just a teeny weeny bit off track.
 
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Old Feb 25, 2018 | 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by HKMark23
Yep, energy converts to matter and vice versa. Neither is ever destroyed or created, hence the Higgs field and the Boson which confirms its existance but we may be getting just a teeny weeny bit off track.
Agreed. But to my mind "conversion" means one thing is no longer existent - or is destroyed, while another thing comes into existence - or is created.

Just semantics, I know....and the fundamental principle is the same underlying conserved physical quantity.
 
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