Disappointing dyno results
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 186
Likes: 41
From: NH / USA
Sorry to hear about all your troubles with tuning. The good news is you are now in the best of Hands. Jamie at Fuel Moto will get you setup right. Just follow his instructions, provide him the data and he will dial you in. Sounds like your not looking for a race bike, just a bike that pulls hard and runs smooth. I have 100% confidence Fuel Moto will get you there as they have for my last 4 rides. 2 of which I brought cross country to them, 2 of which Jamie has dialed in remote.
Yeah, I posted a couple reviews online. Not that I expect it to have an impact, but I feel like people should know. What's funny, in defending his employee, he directly insulted a very well-respected tuner here in New England. When I told Reggie that I sent the map to Rob's Dyno he told me Rob was an over-rated hack that all he does is auto-tunes his bikes and is really rough on them. I found that to be quite the odd statement to make, especially because I thought they had a very good working relationship and I know Rob has sent them a lot of business their way. I told Rob as a courtesy what was said about him and he didn't seem too pleased.
From what I can see, Reggie Jr is doing a good job of trying to ruin his father's legacy and company.
From what I can see, Reggie Jr is doing a good job of trying to ruin his father's legacy and company.
The tuner that did such a wonderful job on my TC 117 told me auto-tune just gets it close. He wont be my tuner again. By the way, he didnt say he was the best in the valley, but he did say he had tuned more bikes than anyone in the valley. He took great offense when I told him I wasnt sure he was capable of tuning my bike.
Good luck with your tuning, Im sure Jamie will get you there.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,868
Likes: 7,987
From: poway
I find that to be rather amusing. When Steve Cole was tuning my bike when we were testing cams, he would get some initial data, make some adjustments, use auto-tune to get the AFR in the blocks, including the ones below idle, and adjust the timing, bingo, bike is tuned. Im sure I have simplified this quite a bit, but the point is he used the auto-tune and I dont think you can dispute the results.
The tuner that did such a wonderful job on my TC 117 told me auto-tune just gets it close. He wont be my tuner again. By the way, he didnt say he was the best in the valley, but he did say he had tuned more bikes than anyone in the valley. He took great offense when I told him I wasnt sure he was capable of tuning my bike.
Good luck with your tuning, Im sure Jamie will get you there.
The tuner that did such a wonderful job on my TC 117 told me auto-tune just gets it close. He wont be my tuner again. By the way, he didnt say he was the best in the valley, but he did say he had tuned more bikes than anyone in the valley. He took great offense when I told him I wasnt sure he was capable of tuning my bike.
Good luck with your tuning, Im sure Jamie will get you there.
One thing many forget is that the timing also needs to be optimized.
One thing to note is that the autotuner Steve uses for TTS is likely his advanced version. It performs corrections live insteads filling the cells then reflash routines. It's pretty cool but as I understand this process, it is and additional tool over the standard TTS programming.. Steve will likely correct me if I'm wrong.. We talked about him bring this out a little over 2 years ago..
One thing many forget is that the timing also needs to be optimized.
One thing many forget is that the timing also needs to be optimized.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,017
Likes: 599
From: Columbus, OH
I have always understood to take "auto tune" results as a suggestion, and to review what it's changing before applying it. Drastic changes can be a red flag for something elses being wrong and "auto tune" could be trying to correct it. This kind of stuff is much easier to monitor on the dyno, as far as street tuning I have used auto tune many times with both PV and SE tuners but usually get a log file from the next run just to be sure everything is playing well together after the changes. that's just my experience.
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,469
Likes: 4,734
I think what you are talking about is his "red" tuner. He did use that to start with, but then he was just using the regular TTS. I did ask him if any tech could do what he was doing with the TTS and answered affirmative. It was taking about three hours each cam. The last cam took maybe two hours or so. Like you said, if I'm wrong he can correct me.
Now if you want to believe that, I've got some property you just have to buy................
That said, everything I do when tuning, can be done with anyone having the TTS product. We do have a few various versions to aid you in tuning and speed things along and I used them all. Since this was to be a comparison I want to make sure and double check everything and do the best possible for all involved, so I did spend more time than necessary on all of them. Different Lambda ratio's and various timing adjustments were tested to find the best on pump fuel we could have for each product tested in $tonecolds bike. The results we saw were very different than what others had posted previously but that's just the way it is. The cam results fell into two different groups, Low RPM (Off idle to 4000) High Torque output and Mid Range RPM (2500 - 5500) power output. There is no such thing as Auto tune when it comes to tuning a HD engine to run properly! There are tuning aids to help you getting it closer but none of them are an Auto tuning device. You must follow the steps in the proper order to get the desired results and skipping them or doing them in the wrong order does hurt the overall results.
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What I do is magic!
Now if you want to believe that, I've got some property you just have to buy................
That said, everything I do when tuning, can be done with anyone having the TTS product. We do have a few various versions to aid you in tuning and speed things along and I used them all. Since this was to be a comparison I want to make sure and double check everything and do the best possible for all involved, so I did spend more time than necessary on all of them. Different Lambda ratio's and various timing adjustments were tested to find the best on pump fuel we could have for each product tested in $tonecolds bike. The results we saw were very different than what others had posted previously but that's just the way it is. The cam results fell into two different groups, Low RPM (Off idle to 4000) High Torque output and Mid Range RPM (2500 - 5500) power output. There is no such thing as Auto tune when it comes to tuning a HD engine to run properly! There are tuning aids to help you getting it closer but none of them are an Auto tuning device. You must follow the steps in the proper order to get the desired results and skipping them or doing them in the wrong order does hurt the overall results.
Now if you want to believe that, I've got some property you just have to buy................
That said, everything I do when tuning, can be done with anyone having the TTS product. We do have a few various versions to aid you in tuning and speed things along and I used them all. Since this was to be a comparison I want to make sure and double check everything and do the best possible for all involved, so I did spend more time than necessary on all of them. Different Lambda ratio's and various timing adjustments were tested to find the best on pump fuel we could have for each product tested in $tonecolds bike. The results we saw were very different than what others had posted previously but that's just the way it is. The cam results fell into two different groups, Low RPM (Off idle to 4000) High Torque output and Mid Range RPM (2500 - 5500) power output. There is no such thing as Auto tune when it comes to tuning a HD engine to run properly! There are tuning aids to help you getting it closer but none of them are an Auto tuning device. You must follow the steps in the proper order to get the desired results and skipping them or doing them in the wrong order does hurt the overall results.
I guess auto-tune was not the right nomenclature for what you were using to tune the bike, but when the TTS was working to read the afr and then putting the correct afr in the block (rpm/throttle position) where you were operating the bike it was a lot like what is referred to as auto-tune on PV. I do remember adjustments you had to make before that step and after you filled all the blocks in the operating range you still had to set the timing, so automatic it's not, but it does a great job of tuning.