battery problems
Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 535
Likes: 0
From: Huntington Beach
Bluehighways is claiming that 31mA is typical for a parasitic load, he may very well be correct. Not sure myself what it should be for your year.
However, as long as you are sure that its being measured correctly, be it 31 or 50mA, a fully charged battery should maintain that size of load for much more than 2-3 days.
I can’t at this point, rule in or rule out an electrical problem with the bike because I don’t know if that parasitic load is normal or not. But if you are sure the battery is charged starting out and you are sure that the parasitic load was measured correctly, then you have a bad battery.
You can take the battery and have it tested before buying a new one, many places now have invested in the equipment to automatically test it. The equipment can pulse test a battery to determine CCA and also run a constant current discharge to determine it’s reserve capacity.
You can also do the poor man’s reserve capacity test. Pick up a 40 watt, 12 volt incandescent light bulb from a hardware store, such as one of these:
http://www.lampsplus.com/products/40-Watt-Candelabra-12-Volt-Light-Bulb__46408.html
With the battery fully charged and on the bench, the 40 watt bulb will give you a mean discharge rate of around 3.5 Amps. The battery might have the reserve capacity listed on its label. Most AGM batteries for a softail are going to be around 20 amp/hr. (give or take a couple). Connect the light bulb load to the fully charged battery and monitor its voltage over time. You are going to take the battery down to its terminal voltage, which is 1.75V/cell, or 10.75V with the load applied. When you disconnect the load, the voltage will recover back to the 12 volt range. At this point it’s simple math, how many hours did it take to get down to 10.75v, times that by the load, which is 3.5A (mean), that gives you the battery’s reserve capacity, which will indicate it’s state of health. A healthy, fully charged 20amp/hr battery is going to run that light load for 5-6 hours. Keep in mind that this does not indicate CCA, just reserve capacity.
This is somewhat crude but effective, the battery industry usually uses the C/10 discharge rate for determining the reserve capacity, which would work out to be a 2 amp constant current load over a 10 hour period.
It’s normal for batteries to start to loose reserve capacity with age, but it’s a gradual decay. But it should still be within 30% or so of its original rating.
Hope this helps…
Last edited by 1hellbent; Jan 5, 2011 at 06:33 PM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,033
Likes: 7
From: TEXAS
Not sure what you are asking here alekit.
Bluehighways is claiming that 31mA is typical for a parasitic load, he may very well be correct. Not sure myself what it should be for your year.
However, as long as you are sure that its being measured correctly, be it 31 or 50mA, a fully charged battery should maintain that size of load for much more than 2-3 days.
I cant at this point, rule in or rule out an electrical problem with the bike because I dont know if that parasitic load is normal or not. But if you are sure the battery is charged starting out and you are sure that the parasitic load was measured correctly, then you have a bad battery.
You can take the battery and have it tested before buying a new one, many places now have invested in the equipment to automatically test it. The equipment can pulse test a battery to determine CCA and also run a constant current discharge to determine its reserve capacity.
You can also do the poor mans reserve capacity test. Pick up a 40 watt, 12 volt incandescent light bulb from a hardware store, such as one of these:
http://www.lampsplus.com/products/40-Watt-Candelabra-12-Volt-Light-Bulb__46408.html
With the battery fully charged and on the bench, the 40 watt bulb will give you a mean discharge rate of around 3.5 Amps. The battery might have the reserve capacity listed on its label. Most AGM batteries for a softail are going to be around 20 amp/hr. (give or take a couple). Connect the light bulb load to the fully charged battery and monitor its voltage over time. You are going to take the battery down to its terminal voltage, which is 1.75V/cell, or 10.75V with the load applied. When you disconnect the load, the voltage will recover back to the 12 volt range. At this point its simple math, how many hours did it take to get down to 10.75v, times that by the load, which is 3.5A (mean), that gives you the batterys reserve capacity, which will indicate its state of health. A healthy, fully charged 20amp/hr battery is going to run that light load for 5-6 hours. Keep in mind that this does not indicate CCA, just reserve capacity.
This is somewhat crude but effective, the battery industry usually uses the C/10 discharge rate for determining the reserve capacity, which would work out to be a 2 amp constant current load over a 10 hour period.
Its normal for batteries to start to loose reserve capacity with age, but its a gradual decay. But it should still be within 30% or so of its original rating.
Hope this helps
Bluehighways is claiming that 31mA is typical for a parasitic load, he may very well be correct. Not sure myself what it should be for your year.
However, as long as you are sure that its being measured correctly, be it 31 or 50mA, a fully charged battery should maintain that size of load for much more than 2-3 days.
I cant at this point, rule in or rule out an electrical problem with the bike because I dont know if that parasitic load is normal or not. But if you are sure the battery is charged starting out and you are sure that the parasitic load was measured correctly, then you have a bad battery.
You can take the battery and have it tested before buying a new one, many places now have invested in the equipment to automatically test it. The equipment can pulse test a battery to determine CCA and also run a constant current discharge to determine its reserve capacity.
You can also do the poor mans reserve capacity test. Pick up a 40 watt, 12 volt incandescent light bulb from a hardware store, such as one of these:
http://www.lampsplus.com/products/40-Watt-Candelabra-12-Volt-Light-Bulb__46408.html
With the battery fully charged and on the bench, the 40 watt bulb will give you a mean discharge rate of around 3.5 Amps. The battery might have the reserve capacity listed on its label. Most AGM batteries for a softail are going to be around 20 amp/hr. (give or take a couple). Connect the light bulb load to the fully charged battery and monitor its voltage over time. You are going to take the battery down to its terminal voltage, which is 1.75V/cell, or 10.75V with the load applied. When you disconnect the load, the voltage will recover back to the 12 volt range. At this point its simple math, how many hours did it take to get down to 10.75v, times that by the load, which is 3.5A (mean), that gives you the batterys reserve capacity, which will indicate its state of health. A healthy, fully charged 20amp/hr battery is going to run that light load for 5-6 hours. Keep in mind that this does not indicate CCA, just reserve capacity.
This is somewhat crude but effective, the battery industry usually uses the C/10 discharge rate for determining the reserve capacity, which would work out to be a 2 amp constant current load over a 10 hour period.
Its normal for batteries to start to loose reserve capacity with age, but its a gradual decay. But it should still be within 30% or so of its original rating.
Hope this helps
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,172
Likes: 7
From: Clermont, GA, CSA
Also, I parked my Sportster in my garage for years, on concrete. NO battery problems ever.
I now park my Heritage there with no problems either. I do have a Walmart battery tender on it though.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,033
Likes: 7
From: TEXAS
That's an 'old wives tale.' There's no way a battery can drain through a kick stand.
Also, I parked my Sportster in my garage for years, on concrete. NO battery problems ever.
I now park my Heritage there with no problems either. I do have a Walmart battery tender on it though.
Also, I parked my Sportster in my garage for years, on concrete. NO battery problems ever.
I now park my Heritage there with no problems either. I do have a Walmart battery tender on it though.
Well i have a young wive! lol
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,386
Likes: 254
From: Southern California
OK, so I had to get up off by butt and actually see what a “Normal” Parasitic Drain is. Or at least what it is on my 2010 FLSTC. Not sure what the OP's 2002 Bike should have; but it probably isn't a whole lot different.
So here is what I found: The Parasitic Drain on my bike is about 1 mA ( 0.001 Amperes).
To determine what the parasitic draw is you need to get past the Alarm shut down timer and you need to do so without triggering the “Disturbed Bike” portion of the Alarm system.
Under no circumstances should you try and start the bike during this test. At the least you will fry your jumper wires. At the worst you may destroy your meter and maybe even do very serious cosmetic damage to your bike when your wiring goes up in smoke and litters your bike with melted plastic and red hot glowing pieces of wire. Are we clear about this?
1.) Disconnect the Negative Terminal of the Battery
2.) Connect all of the Negative Wires/Cables together with a separate bolt (or jumper wire). I used a bolt mostly because I wanted to take a photograph that was as uncluttered as possible.
3.) Set a Digital Volt Ohm Metter (DVOM) to a DC Amperes setting that will read to 1 mA (0.001 Ampers).
4.) Hook up the DVOM in Series between the Negative (-) Battery Terminal and the Negative Wires/Cables that you tied together in step # 2 above.
5.) Attach a jumper wire between the Negative (-) Battery Terminal and the Negative Wires/Cables that you tied together in step # 2 above.
6.) Turn the Main Key Switch “On” But under NO circumstance should you try and crank the engine. The Fuel pump will run, and the lights on the bike will probably come on; this is all OK.
7.) Turn the Main Key Switch “Off” after the Fuel Pump stops (about 10 seconds or so.)
8.) Wait for the Alarm system to arm itself and to finish with all the blinking of the lights and LED on the Speedometer.
9.) Remove the Jumper wire you installed in step # 5
10.) Initially the draw was 66 mA (0.066 Amperes)
11.) After about 15 seconds the draw fell to about 1 mA (0.001 Amperes). About every 4 seconds it jumped to 3.5 to 4 mA (0.0035 – 0.0040 Amperes) when the Alarm LED illuminated on the Speedometer.
12.) Eventually the Alarm system will stop blinking the LED and the Parasitic Draw will remain between 0.87 mA and 1.04 mA (0.000870 – 0.001040 Amperes).
Notes:
A.) If you trigger the “Disturbed Bike” function of the Alarm while you are doing this test the Parasitic Draw will remain above 100 mA (0.100 Amperes) for a long time. For me it never did fall off. I was willing to watch it for about 3-4 minutes or so. It may eventually time out, but I didn’t have enough patience for that. Even when I bridged the Cables/Wires to the Battery Terminal in an attempt to cycle this timer; the Parasitic Current Draw never did fall below 66 mA (0.066 Amperes) when I removed the Jumper Wire. Again I didn’t have enough patience to wait and see if this second timer would eventually count down.
B.) Leaving the Battery disconnected for more than about 30 seconds or so seems to be enough to trigger what I am calling the “Disturbed Bike” function.
C.) Performing Steps 6, 7 and 8 above, will cycle this “Disturbed Bike” timer Off. Which is why I included these steps in this test procedure.
Pictures:
1.) Ammeter attached with bridging Jumper Wire Installed
2.) Ammeter attached with bridging Jumper Wire removed
3.) Ammeter showing less than 1 mA (0.000890 Amperes) Parasitic Draw
4.) Speedometer with Alarm LED "On"
5.) Ammeter showing 3.74 mA (0.00374 amperes) when the Alarm LED blinked (about every 4 seconds or so)
Oh yea, if someone is really sharp you'll notice that I technically have my Ammeter leads reversed. All that means is that the reading on the meter shows a minus sign (-) in front of it.
So here is what I found: The Parasitic Drain on my bike is about 1 mA ( 0.001 Amperes).
To determine what the parasitic draw is you need to get past the Alarm shut down timer and you need to do so without triggering the “Disturbed Bike” portion of the Alarm system.
Under no circumstances should you try and start the bike during this test. At the least you will fry your jumper wires. At the worst you may destroy your meter and maybe even do very serious cosmetic damage to your bike when your wiring goes up in smoke and litters your bike with melted plastic and red hot glowing pieces of wire. Are we clear about this?
1.) Disconnect the Negative Terminal of the Battery
2.) Connect all of the Negative Wires/Cables together with a separate bolt (or jumper wire). I used a bolt mostly because I wanted to take a photograph that was as uncluttered as possible.
3.) Set a Digital Volt Ohm Metter (DVOM) to a DC Amperes setting that will read to 1 mA (0.001 Ampers).
4.) Hook up the DVOM in Series between the Negative (-) Battery Terminal and the Negative Wires/Cables that you tied together in step # 2 above.
5.) Attach a jumper wire between the Negative (-) Battery Terminal and the Negative Wires/Cables that you tied together in step # 2 above.
6.) Turn the Main Key Switch “On” But under NO circumstance should you try and crank the engine. The Fuel pump will run, and the lights on the bike will probably come on; this is all OK.
7.) Turn the Main Key Switch “Off” after the Fuel Pump stops (about 10 seconds or so.)
8.) Wait for the Alarm system to arm itself and to finish with all the blinking of the lights and LED on the Speedometer.
9.) Remove the Jumper wire you installed in step # 5
10.) Initially the draw was 66 mA (0.066 Amperes)
11.) After about 15 seconds the draw fell to about 1 mA (0.001 Amperes). About every 4 seconds it jumped to 3.5 to 4 mA (0.0035 – 0.0040 Amperes) when the Alarm LED illuminated on the Speedometer.
12.) Eventually the Alarm system will stop blinking the LED and the Parasitic Draw will remain between 0.87 mA and 1.04 mA (0.000870 – 0.001040 Amperes).
Notes:
A.) If you trigger the “Disturbed Bike” function of the Alarm while you are doing this test the Parasitic Draw will remain above 100 mA (0.100 Amperes) for a long time. For me it never did fall off. I was willing to watch it for about 3-4 minutes or so. It may eventually time out, but I didn’t have enough patience for that. Even when I bridged the Cables/Wires to the Battery Terminal in an attempt to cycle this timer; the Parasitic Current Draw never did fall below 66 mA (0.066 Amperes) when I removed the Jumper Wire. Again I didn’t have enough patience to wait and see if this second timer would eventually count down.
B.) Leaving the Battery disconnected for more than about 30 seconds or so seems to be enough to trigger what I am calling the “Disturbed Bike” function.
C.) Performing Steps 6, 7 and 8 above, will cycle this “Disturbed Bike” timer Off. Which is why I included these steps in this test procedure.
Pictures:
1.) Ammeter attached with bridging Jumper Wire Installed
2.) Ammeter attached with bridging Jumper Wire removed
3.) Ammeter showing less than 1 mA (0.000890 Amperes) Parasitic Draw
4.) Speedometer with Alarm LED "On"
5.) Ammeter showing 3.74 mA (0.00374 amperes) when the Alarm LED blinked (about every 4 seconds or so)
Oh yea, if someone is really sharp you'll notice that I technically have my Ammeter leads reversed. All that means is that the reading on the meter shows a minus sign (-) in front of it.
Last edited by Bluehighways; Jun 20, 2017 at 02:16 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,033
Likes: 7
From: TEXAS
OK, so I had to get up off by butt and actually see what a Normal Parasitic Drain is. Or at least what it is on my 2010 FLSTC. Not sure what the OP's 2002 Bike should have; but it probably isn't a whole lot different.
So here is what I found: The Parasitic Drain on my bike is about 1 mA ( 0.001 Amperes).
To determine what the parasitic draw is you need to get past the Alarm shut down timer and you need to do so without triggering the Disturbed Bike portion of the Alarm system.
Under no circumstances should you try and start the bike during this test. At the least you will fry your jumper wires. At the worst you may destroy your meter and maybe even do very serious cosmetic damage to your bike when your wiring goes up in smoke and litters your bike with melted plastic and red hot glowing pieces of wire. Are we clear about this?
1.) Disconnect the Negative Terminal of the Battery
2.) Connect all of the Negative Wires/Cables together with a separate bolt (or jumper wire). I used a bolt mostly because I wanted to take a photograph that was as uncluttered as possible.
3.) Set a Digital Volt Ohm Metter (DVOM) to a DC Amperes setting that will read to 1 mA (0.001 Ampers).
4.) Hook up the DVOM in Series between the Negative (-) Battery Terminal and the Negative Wires/Cables that you tied together in step # 2 above.
5.) Attach a jumper wire between the Negative (-) Battery Terminal and the Negative Wires/Cables that you tied together in step # 2 above.
6.) Turn the Main Key Switch On But under NO circumstance should you try and crank the engine. The Fuel pump will run, and the lights on the bike will probably come on; this is all OK.
7.) Turn the Main Key Switch Off after the Fuel Pump stops (about 10 seconds or so.)
8.) Wait for the Alarm system to arm itself and to finish with all the blinking of the lights and LED on the Speedometer.
9.) Remove the Jumper wire you installed in step # 5
10.) Initially the draw was 66 mA (0.066 Amperes)
11.) After about 15 seconds the draw fell to about 1 mA (0.001 Amperes). About every 4 seconds it jumped to 3.5 to 4 mA (0.0035 0.0040 Amperes) when the Alarm LED illuminated on the Speedometer.
12.) Eventually the Alarm system will stop blinking the LED and the Parasitic Draw will remain between 0.87 mA and 1.04 mA (0.000870 0.001040 Amperes).
Notes:
A.) If you trigger the Disturbed Bike function of the Alarm while you are doing this test the Parasitic Draw will remain above 100 mA (0.100 Amperes) for a long time. For me it never did fall off. I was willing to watch it for about 3-4 minutes or so. It may eventually time out, but I didnt have enough patience for that. Even when I bridged the Cables/Wires to the Battery Terminal in an attempt to cycle this timer; the Parasitic Current Draw never did fall below 66 mA (0.066 Amperes) when I removed the Jumper Wire. Again I didnt have enough patience to wait and see if this second timer would eventually count down.
B.) Leaving the Battery disconnected for more than about 30 seconds or so seems to be enough to trigger what I am calling the Disturbed Bike function.
C.) Performing Steps 6, 7 and 8 above, will cycle this Disturbed Bike timer Off. Which is why I included these steps in this test procedure.
Pictures:
1.) Ammeter attached with bridging Jumper Wire Installed
2.) Ammeter attached with bridging Jumper Wire removed
3.) Ammeter showing less than 1 mA (0.000890 Amperes) Parasitic Draw
4.) Speedometer with Alarm LED "On"
5.) Ammeter showing 3.74 mA (0.00374 amperes) when the Alarm LED blinked (about every 4 seconds or so)
Oh yea, if someone is really sharp you'll notice that I technically have my Ammeter leads reversed. All that means is that the reading on the meter shows a minus sign (-) in front of it.
So here is what I found: The Parasitic Drain on my bike is about 1 mA ( 0.001 Amperes).
To determine what the parasitic draw is you need to get past the Alarm shut down timer and you need to do so without triggering the Disturbed Bike portion of the Alarm system.
Under no circumstances should you try and start the bike during this test. At the least you will fry your jumper wires. At the worst you may destroy your meter and maybe even do very serious cosmetic damage to your bike when your wiring goes up in smoke and litters your bike with melted plastic and red hot glowing pieces of wire. Are we clear about this?
1.) Disconnect the Negative Terminal of the Battery
2.) Connect all of the Negative Wires/Cables together with a separate bolt (or jumper wire). I used a bolt mostly because I wanted to take a photograph that was as uncluttered as possible.
3.) Set a Digital Volt Ohm Metter (DVOM) to a DC Amperes setting that will read to 1 mA (0.001 Ampers).
4.) Hook up the DVOM in Series between the Negative (-) Battery Terminal and the Negative Wires/Cables that you tied together in step # 2 above.
5.) Attach a jumper wire between the Negative (-) Battery Terminal and the Negative Wires/Cables that you tied together in step # 2 above.
6.) Turn the Main Key Switch On But under NO circumstance should you try and crank the engine. The Fuel pump will run, and the lights on the bike will probably come on; this is all OK.
7.) Turn the Main Key Switch Off after the Fuel Pump stops (about 10 seconds or so.)
8.) Wait for the Alarm system to arm itself and to finish with all the blinking of the lights and LED on the Speedometer.
9.) Remove the Jumper wire you installed in step # 5
10.) Initially the draw was 66 mA (0.066 Amperes)
11.) After about 15 seconds the draw fell to about 1 mA (0.001 Amperes). About every 4 seconds it jumped to 3.5 to 4 mA (0.0035 0.0040 Amperes) when the Alarm LED illuminated on the Speedometer.
12.) Eventually the Alarm system will stop blinking the LED and the Parasitic Draw will remain between 0.87 mA and 1.04 mA (0.000870 0.001040 Amperes).
Notes:
A.) If you trigger the Disturbed Bike function of the Alarm while you are doing this test the Parasitic Draw will remain above 100 mA (0.100 Amperes) for a long time. For me it never did fall off. I was willing to watch it for about 3-4 minutes or so. It may eventually time out, but I didnt have enough patience for that. Even when I bridged the Cables/Wires to the Battery Terminal in an attempt to cycle this timer; the Parasitic Current Draw never did fall below 66 mA (0.066 Amperes) when I removed the Jumper Wire. Again I didnt have enough patience to wait and see if this second timer would eventually count down.
B.) Leaving the Battery disconnected for more than about 30 seconds or so seems to be enough to trigger what I am calling the Disturbed Bike function.
C.) Performing Steps 6, 7 and 8 above, will cycle this Disturbed Bike timer Off. Which is why I included these steps in this test procedure.
Pictures:
1.) Ammeter attached with bridging Jumper Wire Installed
2.) Ammeter attached with bridging Jumper Wire removed
3.) Ammeter showing less than 1 mA (0.000890 Amperes) Parasitic Draw
4.) Speedometer with Alarm LED "On"
5.) Ammeter showing 3.74 mA (0.00374 amperes) when the Alarm LED blinked (about every 4 seconds or so)
Oh yea, if someone is really sharp you'll notice that I technically have my Ammeter leads reversed. All that means is that the reading on the meter shows a minus sign (-) in front of it.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 38,300
Likes: 6,325
From: Honah Lee
You Up
Oh now my brain really hurts. Akit, blue and I have learner a lot and to pay you for all this experience we have decided to just give up and pay your local Harley dealer to fix you bike. PM blue.
Last edited by Jackie Paper; Sep 14, 2018 at 10:27 AM.
Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 535
Likes: 0
From: Huntington Beach
Good info! It also coincides with Bluehighways findings on his scoot. By the way, nice work Bluehighways! You obviously put in some work on this topic to help the guy out. Thats whats cool about this sight, many people here trying to help others, kind of makes up for the few dick heads that feel the need to be rude.
Armed with this information, and if alekits current readings are correct, then the voltage regulator definitely exceeds the spec.
As for the intermittently box, there doesnt seem to be a spec for it. Er um because we dont know what it is, can you elaborate?
Could be you have more than one problem (i.e. electrical problem on the bike and a bad or weak battery). Like I said, many places can and will test the battery for free.
Armed with this information, and if alekits current readings are correct, then the voltage regulator definitely exceeds the spec.
As for the intermittently box, there doesnt seem to be a spec for it. Er um because we dont know what it is, can you elaborate?
Could be you have more than one problem (i.e. electrical problem on the bike and a bad or weak battery). Like I said, many places can and will test the battery for free.
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Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 535
Likes: 0
From: Huntington Beach
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 38,300
Likes: 6,325
From: Honah Lee
Blue
Blue, if you look in my attachment in post 27 it appears that Harley has used some electronics to shut off more on your newer bike then my 04 if I understand my attachment. Least for 04 it appears the carb bike with the key off should be 0 but my FI can be somewhere around the total of the chart which is very low compared to what Alekit is getting. Next chance I get I will check mine just to find out.
Last edited by Jackie Paper; Mar 18, 2011 at 11:14 AM.