True Duals
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Road Master
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 797
Likes: 166
From: MA
True Duals
I am toying maybe with changing out my exhaust system perhaps over the winter. The motivation is that I like the look of duals and my stock exhaust is just a bit too quiet for my taste....I am not looking for sound you can hear a mile away, but just a bit richer sound.
The question is: how big of a job is this? I hear that it requires retuning by Harley, lots of expensive parts......?? How will it affect the passenger? Is it worth it? Will it void the warranty?
Perhaps this is a bad idea....thanks. : )
The question is: how big of a job is this? I hear that it requires retuning by Harley, lots of expensive parts......?? How will it affect the passenger? Is it worth it? Will it void the warranty?
Perhaps this is a bad idea....thanks. : )
Road Master
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 875
Likes: 10
From: Corp of Discovery trail, Missouri
Why wait until next winter. Get all of the parts and you can easily change the sound and upgrade performance in a single afternoon. You could just get some new slip on mufflers to change the exhaust note and you would be good to go. With true duals you will need to upgrade the air intake and fuel enrichment. Rush slip on mufflers have a good reputation and there are many other options.
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,342
Likes: 8
From: Milwaukee, WI
No reason to wait until winter. With all of the necessary parts and service manual, taking the stock exhaust off and putting the new exhaust on is fairly simple. It can easily be done in one day. Just replacing the mufflers versus adding a full exhaust system (i.e. true duals) will take a little longer.
If you are only replacing the exhaust, then a re-tune is not required, but I would recommend it. If you decide to replace the stock air cleaner for a higher flowing kit, then the bike will have to be re-tuned. There are plenty of tuners available for Harley's which do not need to be tuned at a dealer. Whatever you do, do not take it to a dealer to get a new tune flashed to the bike.
No, adding aftermarket exhaust will not void the warranty.
Is it worth it? That is solely up to you. If you thing the different look and sound is worth the time and labor, then it is worth it.
If you are only replacing the exhaust, then a re-tune is not required, but I would recommend it. If you decide to replace the stock air cleaner for a higher flowing kit, then the bike will have to be re-tuned. There are plenty of tuners available for Harley's which do not need to be tuned at a dealer. Whatever you do, do not take it to a dealer to get a new tune flashed to the bike.
No, adding aftermarket exhaust will not void the warranty.
Is it worth it? That is solely up to you. If you thing the different look and sound is worth the time and labor, then it is worth it.
Road Master
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 970
Likes: 19
From: Philippines
Overthehill,
You failed to mention what bike you have but I assume it's a Heritage. I'll address issues in appropriate order.
1. Yes, go duals! You'll love the look and sound. Vance and Hines duals fit perfectly without need for any modifications. Attached are 2 photos of the same V&H Duals on a Fatboy and Deluxe. The duals on the Fatboy have been modified with an 8 inch extension. The duals on the Deluxe are stock length. You can order different style tips. Run them with Big City Thunder baffles for a great sound. Note: V&H pipes do not include new flanges. Reuse your existing flanges or order new ones. You must install new exhaust gaskets when changing pipes.
2. The rear (left) exhaust runs up and over the clutch cover of the primary. You'll pick up a little heat under your leg. If this is a problem, an easy solution is to use a Captain Itch Crotch Cooler.
3. If you're running the stock air intake it most likely will not be necessary to re-tune. Having said that, even a stock Harley off the show room floor can benefit by re-tuning. Harley tunes their bike very "Lean" from the factory.
4. As stated in the previous responses, there are many tuners on the market. The simplest and least expensive is the Vance and Hines Fuel Pak. Sufficient for Stage 1.
5. If you mount Duals and decide to re-tune. Add a Stage 1 intake to get the performance benefits. I recommend the Arlen Ness Big Sucker. Simple yet effective design.
You failed to mention what bike you have but I assume it's a Heritage. I'll address issues in appropriate order.
1. Yes, go duals! You'll love the look and sound. Vance and Hines duals fit perfectly without need for any modifications. Attached are 2 photos of the same V&H Duals on a Fatboy and Deluxe. The duals on the Fatboy have been modified with an 8 inch extension. The duals on the Deluxe are stock length. You can order different style tips. Run them with Big City Thunder baffles for a great sound. Note: V&H pipes do not include new flanges. Reuse your existing flanges or order new ones. You must install new exhaust gaskets when changing pipes.
2. The rear (left) exhaust runs up and over the clutch cover of the primary. You'll pick up a little heat under your leg. If this is a problem, an easy solution is to use a Captain Itch Crotch Cooler.
3. If you're running the stock air intake it most likely will not be necessary to re-tune. Having said that, even a stock Harley off the show room floor can benefit by re-tuning. Harley tunes their bike very "Lean" from the factory.
4. As stated in the previous responses, there are many tuners on the market. The simplest and least expensive is the Vance and Hines Fuel Pak. Sufficient for Stage 1.
5. If you mount Duals and decide to re-tune. Add a Stage 1 intake to get the performance benefits. I recommend the Arlen Ness Big Sucker. Simple yet effective design.
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: michigan
A retune with different exhaust may be necessary, just altering baffles in an exhaust system can change the air fuel mixture (changes scavenging exhaust). Further, all bikes are set to run lean at idle nowadays (because of EPA testing), so changing the exhaust will result in deceleration pop due to a lean condition. Exhaust, air cleaner, and fuel ratio all work hand in hand, and changing any one component results in a change in the overall fuel ratio (this is why dynos were created).
Tourer
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 254
Likes: 1
From: Miami County, Ohio
Would a retune be needed with a factory Stage 1 already installed? Currently, I have Screaming Eagle mufflers and air cleaner on an 06 Heritage but really would really like to go with True Duals.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,275
Likes: 149
From: High in the Colorado Rockies
I have V&H True Duals on a Deluxe. Just FYI, they are not that loud (you can't hear them from "a mile away"). The V&H 2 into 1 Pro Pipe and Big Shot Longs that I have on other bikes are certainly louder. SJ Ron 
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 26
From: Florida
Even Harley states that a re-tune is not necessary if you only change your pipes.
If you ALSO, change your air intake then you have to re-tune due to the introduction of more air into the engine.
There is a ton of debate about this. I on the other hand have actually swapped out my stock exhaust for an after market two-into one while leaving the stock air cleaner on. I ran this way for almost a year and a half and never had any issues. It possible that I didn't get the performance or sound that I might have gotten if I did do all that other stuff but I wasn't interested in that and made the change almost solely for the looks.
When I did throw on a stage one air cleaner I did notice within a couple of weeks that my spark plugs showed a lean condition. I installed a Vance & Hines Fuel Pack and everything was cool.
Installing Vance & Hines Duals is probably one of the more challenging of the exhaust systems that I've encountered but that said, it's still a one afternoon deal for anyone with a good head, a decent set of hand tools and some patience.
Good luck.
If you ALSO, change your air intake then you have to re-tune due to the introduction of more air into the engine.
There is a ton of debate about this. I on the other hand have actually swapped out my stock exhaust for an after market two-into one while leaving the stock air cleaner on. I ran this way for almost a year and a half and never had any issues. It possible that I didn't get the performance or sound that I might have gotten if I did do all that other stuff but I wasn't interested in that and made the change almost solely for the looks.
When I did throw on a stage one air cleaner I did notice within a couple of weeks that my spark plugs showed a lean condition. I installed a Vance & Hines Fuel Pack and everything was cool.
Installing Vance & Hines Duals is probably one of the more challenging of the exhaust systems that I've encountered but that said, it's still a one afternoon deal for anyone with a good head, a decent set of hand tools and some patience.
Good luck.
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Thread Starter
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Road Master
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 797
Likes: 166
From: MA
Thanks for the replies. I guess I need to determine the cost/benefit of true duals vs slip ons. I like the look of the duals better, but I am assuming that I would be equally satisfied with the sound from both.
Clearly, the easiest/cheapest is to go with slip ons. I just have to decide if having duals is worth it......ATM I just don't yet know.
Clearly, the easiest/cheapest is to go with slip ons. I just have to decide if having duals is worth it......ATM I just don't yet know.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,054
Likes: 26
From: Florida
Thanks for the replies. I guess I need to determine the cost/benefit of true duals vs slip ons. I like the look of the duals better, but I am assuming that I would be equally satisfied with the sound from both.
Clearly, the easiest/cheapest is to go with slip ons. I just have to decide if having duals is worth it......ATM I just don't yet know.
Clearly, the easiest/cheapest is to go with slip ons. I just have to decide if having duals is worth it......ATM I just don't yet know.
I was in your shoes for a long time. I rode with stock pipes for years before making my mind on what to do. I also considered slip ons as an alternative for all the reasons you have mentioned like cost and simplicity. However, as I shopped for "quality" slip ons I soon realized that they were not cheap either. Relative to a full set up they were cheaper. But I couldn't help but feel that if I did this mod then it might be worth spending around $200 more and getting something that was going to give me overall better results.
What finally tipped the scales for me was LOOKS. The fact remained that slip ons would keep my exhaust looking stock and that look was never going to be good enough for me. This became more evident as the overall look of my scoot changed. Dual slip ons were never going to cut it.
In the end I got lucky! I found what I considered to be the perfect exhaust for my scoot at a crazy price. I found an $800 Supertrapp 2:1 with fishtail tip for $225 on eBay.
Ultimately, you're the only one who is going to know what's best for you.