Oil pump problem.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,440
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From: Columbus,Indiana/ Arecibo,Puerto Rico
Oil pump problem.
06 Ultra with 78k. Almost 0 oil pressure at idle hot. The crankshaft has.0007 runout. Engine has Andrews 026 cams with geardrive. A friend Highly recommended the S&S pump and camplate over the fueling brand, because it would tolerate more crank runout.
I want to put the bike on the road until winter
any pro or con ????
I want to put the bike on the road until winter
any pro or con ????
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,072
Likes: 11,095
From: San Diego, CA
Twin cams run on oil volume, more than oil pressure. At that mileage, on a hot engine at idle, you can see some low oil pressures that don't automatically mean something's wrong... but if this low oil pressure is a new thing, it's worth investigating...
Did you mean .007" run-out..?? Or do you really have .0007" runout?
An '06 with .0007" of run-out is exceptional... and very rare...
An '06 with .007 run-out, is more average for that year, but is too much run-out for gear drive cams... they will self destruct over time with that amount of run-out... If it's .007", you need to convert to a cam with tensioners, and lose the gear drive cams if they haven't been damaged yet....
Regardless of runout, I would take apart the cam plate/pump to see why it's got low oil pressure before putting an expensive S&S cam plate in there. Once you find the cause, you'll know what you need to fix it... worn oil pump gerotors? Scarred oil pump? Broken oil pressure bypass spring? Etc...?
The Harley cam plate/pump combinations are more than adequate for all but the biggest builds on twin cam engines... an S&S cam plate is not necessary...
But S&S makes good products... not cheap, very pretty, and quality stuff..... but a little overkill for a basic Stage I, Stage II, or Stage III build....
Having said all that, sometimes you just can't help yourself and want something of high quality (and pretty) in your engine...Don't ask me how I know... if that's the case, go for it...
2003 Heritage with '07+ cam plate conversion with hydraulic tensioners, conversion cams (A26N), and an S&S cam plate/ oil pump... did I mention it's really pretty...
Did you mean .007" run-out..?? Or do you really have .0007" runout?
An '06 with .0007" of run-out is exceptional... and very rare...
An '06 with .007 run-out, is more average for that year, but is too much run-out for gear drive cams... they will self destruct over time with that amount of run-out... If it's .007", you need to convert to a cam with tensioners, and lose the gear drive cams if they haven't been damaged yet....
Regardless of runout, I would take apart the cam plate/pump to see why it's got low oil pressure before putting an expensive S&S cam plate in there. Once you find the cause, you'll know what you need to fix it... worn oil pump gerotors? Scarred oil pump? Broken oil pressure bypass spring? Etc...?
The Harley cam plate/pump combinations are more than adequate for all but the biggest builds on twin cam engines... an S&S cam plate is not necessary...
But S&S makes good products... not cheap, very pretty, and quality stuff..... but a little overkill for a basic Stage I, Stage II, or Stage III build....
Having said all that, sometimes you just can't help yourself and want something of high quality (and pretty) in your engine...Don't ask me how I know... if that's the case, go for it...
2003 Heritage with '07+ cam plate conversion with hydraulic tensioners, conversion cams (A26N), and an S&S cam plate/ oil pump... did I mention it's really pretty...
Last edited by hattitude; Aug 5, 2019 at 03:14 PM.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,091
Likes: 304
From: mid Michigan
I don't get it, fix the oil pump of your choice then ride till winter. Personally I'm happy with the fueling pump in my signature. It's on a crank with just over .002 and it's has awesome psi 20,000 miles later. Baisley spring works great with it, running at 3/4 gage like the newer bikes.
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,440
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From: Columbus,Indiana/ Arecibo,Puerto Rico
Runout
06 Ultra with 78k. Almost 0 oil pressure at idle hot. The crankshaft has.0007 runout. Engine has Andrews 026 cams with geardrive. A friend Highly recommended the S&S pump and camplate over the fueling brand, because it would tolerate more crank runout.
I want to put the bike on the road until winter
any pro or con ????
I want to put the bike on the road until winter
any pro or con ????
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,072
Likes: 11,095
From: San Diego, CA
FWIW.... I don't know who told you that .007" runout is good... it's actually fairly sloppy... the early twin cams (with forged cranks and timken bearings) had around .002 regularly. I have an '03 (first year with the weaker crankshafts) at .003" and considered that a blessing... There is a reason the MoCo kept raising the allowable crank runout... They did it to reduce warranty claims, not because it's actually a good number...
If you want really good crankshaft runout numbers.... have Hoban Brothers, DarkHorse Crankworks remanufacture your crank. DarkHorse says, "We true all crankshafts to within .0015” total indicated run-out at each main bearing race and guarantee them to stay within .0005” for 2 years and unlimited miles."
Don't take my word for it... do some research. Most say you should NOT go to gear drive cams with a runout over .004", and many will say don't go to gear drive cams over .003" of crank runout....
In any case, if I were you, I'd be inspecting the cam chest & oil pump before ordering replacements... and I would be making some changes, but it's your bike.....
Good luck with the repair...
Last edited by hattitude; Aug 6, 2019 at 12:59 PM.
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From: Straight Jacket Memories and Sedative Highs
Putting a better oil pump is masking whatever the problem is. Why did the volume go down? Unless you just think the stock was wore out.
Has the pressure gone down, or is it a new to you bike?
In supper *** hot weather stuck in traffic you have to rev it a bit to make the need come up. Like long line stuck in traffic, not just a stop light.
But again my question is, has the pressure gone down? If bad pump, I am usually for replacing with better. Though I havn't had issues with stock. But I would google all the talks.
Has the pressure gone down, or is it a new to you bike?
In supper *** hot weather stuck in traffic you have to rev it a bit to make the need come up. Like long line stuck in traffic, not just a stop light.
But again my question is, has the pressure gone down? If bad pump, I am usually for replacing with better. Though I havn't had issues with stock. But I would google all the talks.
Banned
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From: Straight Jacket Memories and Sedative Highs
2002 was last year of timken bearing on crankshaft. I thought was little later until they went cheaper crank. Not sure. Harley did increase the spec for run out at some point. People said it was just to cover up their bad cranks. Dunno. I am not sure if it was for the 96" or before. So if he is looking at his service manual, it might say .007. I can't remember anymore.
Crank run out is obviously an issue if you want to go to gears.
Though just popped into my head, would this cause crank seal leaks????
Crank run out is obviously an issue if you want to go to gears.
Though just popped into my head, would this cause crank seal leaks????