Lifter question
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 449
Likes: 197
From: NC Mountains
Feuling has a good reputation, at least with me. Thats one reason I went with their 8011 conversion plate, 7060 oil pump, sprockets, various nuts and bolts "ARP" and so on. I would not be afraid of using their lifters but after some reading, some research and much input from folks on here that actually know their S--T, the HLJ 2313SE lifters wound up as my choice.
I saw a pic on here or maybe Youtube of someone that had installed Jim's lifters, the expensive ones, when one get more than 100.00 a lifter, I call that "A BIT PRICEY" not saying they are not good lifters but I did see most of a set of needle bearings and other lifter parts laying on the floor for display purposes. Not sure where the remaining needle bearings wound up but if I were to guess?
Now,,, not knowing any/all the details of who did the install work or any number of other variables, I must say that I was "Scared Straight", think that may have been the same day I ordered the HLJ from Larry.
You have 2 choices, 1. have Fuel-Moto or other quality supplier put together a set of parts that work well together. OR 2. do like I did and spend almost a year shopping parts. I was in no big rush so it depends on how fast you want to get rollin.
All the best for which ever and what ever you go with.
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 449
Likes: 197
From: NC Mountains
So far they seem to be getting the job done. I've only logged about 1k so far but everything is holding together well.
A funny little story. just around what I thought would be an easy little breakin period and allowing the new tuner to make adjustments and so on, I was out for a little milage MPG check. Well, my 18 year old H/D speedo/tach combo was givin me a fit. Waze app. said 6.5 mile trip and would wind up 11.6 on the odo and trip meters. So I was pissed, and starting to be late for a collage football game. While headed back to the stadium I wound up behind Mamaw doing 40 in a 55 zone. Had to wait till I could see and have the stripes I needed. Then I let the ponies go. After all my work and parts of good quality I was still supprised how fast I shot by her. A slight glance in the left rear mirror as something caught my eye. A big cloud of white smoke that seemed to just keep billowing from my back side.
My first thought,,, "OH S--T" I just blew the engine. No odd noises so I tettered into the first pull over, leaned her over on the kickstand and took stock of what might have been the problem. Noticed a small set of droplets under the bike forming slowly. Started looking in the suspected area and found my 18 year old now kaput dipstick/temp sensor had popped up and had blown oil out the right side of the bike, down the mufflers and hence the billowing white smoke.
Having said all that, Things are back to normal, after cleaning the burnt on oil off the new mufflers. All is good, the lifters and all other components held up and my guess,, The break in period is now over.. You might say they passed the "Shock Test" with flying colors.
A funny little story. just around what I thought would be an easy little breakin period and allowing the new tuner to make adjustments and so on, I was out for a little milage MPG check. Well, my 18 year old H/D speedo/tach combo was givin me a fit. Waze app. said 6.5 mile trip and would wind up 11.6 on the odo and trip meters. So I was pissed, and starting to be late for a collage football game. While headed back to the stadium I wound up behind Mamaw doing 40 in a 55 zone. Had to wait till I could see and have the stripes I needed. Then I let the ponies go. After all my work and parts of good quality I was still supprised how fast I shot by her. A slight glance in the left rear mirror as something caught my eye. A big cloud of white smoke that seemed to just keep billowing from my back side.
My first thought,,, "OH S--T" I just blew the engine. No odd noises so I tettered into the first pull over, leaned her over on the kickstand and took stock of what might have been the problem. Noticed a small set of droplets under the bike forming slowly. Started looking in the suspected area and found my 18 year old now kaput dipstick/temp sensor had popped up and had blown oil out the right side of the bike, down the mufflers and hence the billowing white smoke.
Having said all that, Things are back to normal, after cleaning the burnt on oil off the new mufflers. All is good, the lifters and all other components held up and my guess,, The break in period is now over.. You might say they passed the "Shock Test" with flying colors.
Thread Starter
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,914
Likes: 229
From: Kentucky
I decided to go with a stage 2 package from Fuel Moto. All in, even with my 15% off from HD the FM package was around the same price with their current 10% off sale, maybe a few bucks less, and of course better parts and performance! I don't intend to install for two or three months but I wanted to take advantage of the 10% off sale.
Road Master
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 941
Likes: 646
From: USA
I do not want to build for performance but for reliability. So I am thinking about installing lifters and lifter guide cuffs in my 2021 107 M8. Want to use the stock push rods. Looks like S & S are the only guide cuffs I can buy but I need to pick a lifter.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 20,955
Likes: 12,473
From: South Carolina
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 449
Likes: 197
From: NC Mountains
You should be fine at .125"....
FWIW....
Tests have shown the cylinders expand more than the pushrods... so whatever you have them set at cold, the distance the pushrod depresses the lifter will decrease slightly on a warm engine (ie: .125" cold, maybe .121" warm). I forget the range of change suggested by the tests. The hydraulic action of the lifter is designed to absorb this difference.
So for years there has been quite a debate over the preload on lifters:
Some say preload doesn't (and shouldn't) matter in a good quality hydraulic lifter. Halfway into the lifter's travel is all that's needed (.100"). The lifter does the rest.
Some say that increased preload keeps better tension as the engine warms up, and decreases lifter/rocker noise. Many suggest .125" and there are a couple of well respected shops who swear that at a preload of .140" they've never had valve train noise.
Then there is the school of thought that says anytime you use adjustable lifters, you should use lifter travel limiters. That's where you adjust until the lifter is fully collapsed, and then back off a flat or two. Supposed to be the best of both worlds, solid lifters and hydraulic lifters
I chased a ticking noise once. With adjustable pushrods (S&S quickies & Screamin' Eagle Premium Tapered) and three different quality lifters (Johnson Hylift, HD "B" lifters, and S&S Premiums) I tried preloads of .100", .125", and .142".... None of the preload settings or different lifter brands had any affect on my ticking issue. I solved it with a top end rebuild. I've never tried the lifter travel limiters, but it's next on my list of things to try on my next build...
Except when I will eventually try the travel limiters, if I use adjustable lifters, I now always shoot for around .125".....
I have modded 4 twin cams with various lifter/cam combinations, all @ .125', and all running well...
FWIW....
Tests have shown the cylinders expand more than the pushrods... so whatever you have them set at cold, the distance the pushrod depresses the lifter will decrease slightly on a warm engine (ie: .125" cold, maybe .121" warm). I forget the range of change suggested by the tests. The hydraulic action of the lifter is designed to absorb this difference.
So for years there has been quite a debate over the preload on lifters:
Some say preload doesn't (and shouldn't) matter in a good quality hydraulic lifter. Halfway into the lifter's travel is all that's needed (.100"). The lifter does the rest.
Some say that increased preload keeps better tension as the engine warms up, and decreases lifter/rocker noise. Many suggest .125" and there are a couple of well respected shops who swear that at a preload of .140" they've never had valve train noise.
Then there is the school of thought that says anytime you use adjustable lifters, you should use lifter travel limiters. That's where you adjust until the lifter is fully collapsed, and then back off a flat or two. Supposed to be the best of both worlds, solid lifters and hydraulic lifters
I chased a ticking noise once. With adjustable pushrods (S&S quickies & Screamin' Eagle Premium Tapered) and three different quality lifters (Johnson Hylift, HD "B" lifters, and S&S Premiums) I tried preloads of .100", .125", and .142".... None of the preload settings or different lifter brands had any affect on my ticking issue. I solved it with a top end rebuild. I've never tried the lifter travel limiters, but it's next on my list of things to try on my next build...
Except when I will eventually try the travel limiters, if I use adjustable lifters, I now always shoot for around .125".....
I have modded 4 twin cams with various lifter/cam combinations, all @ .125', and all running well...
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2022
Posts: 14
Likes: 1
From: amesterdam
It's good practice to put new parts on new parts or there could be some accelerated wear but I've used new lifters on used pushrods twice on my bike and 80k later there's no signs of excessive wear.
Last edited by adamolan; Dec 6, 2022 at 10:12 AM.