open loop vs closed loop
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Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Dearborn, MI
open loop vs closed loop
Does anyone know at which point the 07-08 ECM goes from closed loop to open loop air/fuel control? \\; I.E. at what throttle position and RPM?
 \\;
Also, I am currently running a PCIII with the o2 eliminators, but ended up plugging the 02 sensors back in for better fuel economy. \\; I am using FuelMoto's map. \\; I found that with the 02 sensors plugged back in, I do get noticeably reduced fuel consumption \\;(no surprise) but more importantly, idle quality is much better, as well as engine smoothness when cruising at 55 mph.
 \\;
Last, what exactly does the parade map and stage 1 map do? \\; I wouldnt mind running slightly richer (14.2:1 vs 14.7:1) but not 13:1 in open loop mode at all RPM and throttle positions. \\; I thought the stage 1 map simply readjusts the a/f \\; based on increased airflow once the ECM goes into open loop mode, but wasnt sure. \\; Parade map sounds additional idle enrichment. \\;
 \\;
Thanks to all the experts
 \\;
 \\;
Also, I am currently running a PCIII with the o2 eliminators, but ended up plugging the 02 sensors back in for better fuel economy. \\; I am using FuelMoto's map. \\; I found that with the 02 sensors plugged back in, I do get noticeably reduced fuel consumption \\;(no surprise) but more importantly, idle quality is much better, as well as engine smoothness when cruising at 55 mph.
 \\;
Last, what exactly does the parade map and stage 1 map do? \\; I wouldnt mind running slightly richer (14.2:1 vs 14.7:1) but not 13:1 in open loop mode at all RPM and throttle positions. \\; I thought the stage 1 map simply readjusts the a/f \\; based on increased airflow once the ECM goes into open loop mode, but wasnt sure. \\; Parade map sounds additional idle enrichment. \\;
 \\;
Thanks to all the experts
 \\;
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Joined: Dec 2007
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From: Dearborn, MI
RE: open loop vs closed loop
If Jamie's words are true, then why add the 02 eliminators if the ECM goes to open loop at 1500 RPM? \\; Seems pointless \\; unless 1500 RPM is \\;associated with \\;a certain throttle position value of, say 50%. and the 02 eliminators basically just allow the throttle value to be lower than OEM value by forcing the ECM into open loop all the time.
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,609
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From: Indy area
RE: open loop vs closed loop
ORIGINAL: Bagginit
Also, I am currently running a PCIII with the o2 eliminators, but ended up plugging the 02 sensors back in for better fuel economy.
Also, I am currently running a PCIII with the o2 eliminators, but ended up plugging the 02 sensors back in for better fuel economy.
I have tested operating with the combination of PC-III and closed-loop functionality and the nicest thing I can say is it is a very bad idea.
... what exactly does the parade map and stage 1 map do?
The stage maps are mainly alterations to the programmed VE/spark-timing tables to match specific engine components.
Intermediate
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 26
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From: Salt Lake, Utah
RE: open loop vs closed loop
If you got the gear from Jaime, and you are not happy with it just give him a call. I am sure he has a map that will get you back where you want to be. As others have said by plugging in the 02’s you are in uncharted water and it is anybody’s guess what you will get. -eleven
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 466
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RE: open loop vs closed loop
most fuel injection systems will decide open loop or closed loop by temerature and throttle twist, i belive stock changes as soon as you come off idle it goes into closed loop, when the engine is cold it will be in open loop and run richer until the temp goes up also it will kick back to open loop when the engine starts getting hot to cool it down. look at this site it can explain it better than i can. http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/h...erformance.htm
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,609
Likes: 1
From: Indy area
RE: open loop vs closed loop
Bagginit:
Furthermore, you will have to reset your AFV. I discussed this in https://www.hdforums.com/m_3533404/m...tm.htm#3534825
In that post, when I said something like it was so fat on top it would hardly run, I mean specifically it would not pull past 90 mph. It ran pretty good where I usually operate, however, but the mileage was much poorer than I had anticipated. I can now take it nicely to 100 any time I want (have not cared how much further it would go beyond that). For most of my riding I average right around 38 mpg. If I am on the highway for an entire tank it will be in the lower-mid to mid 40s range. And that is usually taking the highways which go through all the small towns. I have never run a complete tank on the freeway where I am sure it would be better yet. I much prefer the relative serenity of the back(er) roads.
If you want a better idea of just where/when the engine might be operating closed-loop, grab some SERT documentation and look at the AFR mappings. Anywhere you see the tables populated with 14.6 are the closed-loop-able (other factors permitting) areas.
Furthermore, you will have to reset your AFV. I discussed this in https://www.hdforums.com/m_3533404/m...tm.htm#3534825
In that post, when I said something like it was so fat on top it would hardly run, I mean specifically it would not pull past 90 mph. It ran pretty good where I usually operate, however, but the mileage was much poorer than I had anticipated. I can now take it nicely to 100 any time I want (have not cared how much further it would go beyond that). For most of my riding I average right around 38 mpg. If I am on the highway for an entire tank it will be in the lower-mid to mid 40s range. And that is usually taking the highways which go through all the small towns. I have never run a complete tank on the freeway where I am sure it would be better yet. I much prefer the relative serenity of the back(er) roads.
If you want a better idea of just where/when the engine might be operating closed-loop, grab some SERT documentation and look at the AFR mappings. Anywhere you see the tables populated with 14.6 are the closed-loop-able (other factors permitting) areas.
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