PCV and EITMS not compatible?
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 90
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From: West Central Florida
eitms
I have a new 2009 ultra and have noticed it go into back cylinder cut off mode a few times. I feel it idle rougher when its off, it smells different when wind blows exhaust back toward me. the thing I really dont like at it has done this quite a few times on me is that then I start to go the bike sputters, chugs ,and just wont run right and eventually cleans it self out after about 1000 feet. I have not added anything to mine and is completely stock. So I wonder if mine is doing the same thing as the guy who started the post and mine is still stock. I would luv to buy a pvc for mine and probably leave it off or just enable it when I know I am in slow traffic. all I need is money, I took one hell of a gamble and bought mine in sept 08 ,traded mine and the wifes bike in in it. they closed the factory where I work and sent the jobs to mexico, how many cars are they gonna buy for the 4 bucks and hour they getting paid. hope I have a job at fridays interview. so far the canadian bike price has risen 4300 bucks and is still 10% behind the real exchange rate. I have read all the posts on pcv from jamie and really want to get one , for now I just keep reading and learning and hope I get a job soon.
I have the same problem on my stock 08 EGC except mine seems to recover quicker. EITMS on mine is turned OFF though!!! At one point had changed to fuel pak/breather/pipes and still had the problem. Dealer blames it on throttle by wire-EITMS seems more logical but again mine is turned off! ARRGGHHH!!!
Last edited by hitchhiker2706; Mar 18, 2009 at 09:41 PM.
Road Warrior
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Seeing how the TC88 never had EITMS, I was under the impression that the hot mode was Harley-Davidson's bandaid fix for the problems caused by the EPA-mandated lean AFI ratios on the TC96. And consequently that a PCV with the right mapping would pretty much eliminate the need for it.
Is that not the case?
Is that not the case?
All of them would occasionally go into heat management mode if I got stuck in traffic idling a lot, especially if the bike were already good and warmed up on a hot day. I keep the EITMS enabled on the 09 Ultra I currently own cause it does help cool the bike and keep the oil temps down. The only time my 09 has gone into heat mode was Bike Week a few weeks ago. I've put about 5K miles on the bike since Nov but it's been pretty cool here in TN.
If the 09 gets hotter than the 06 did, I'll probably put the PC-V on it to help.
HD EFI Guru
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EITMS controls one cylinder on some bikes and both cylinders on other bikes. So if the PC-V uses an auto learn during the time that the cylinders are being effected it will see the exhaust go lean and begin to richen the mixture. This would be a PC-V issue not a MOCO issue. So the easy fix is to not allow this to happen by limiting the PC-V with auto learn so that it ignores (does not learn) below 1400 RPM range. If you are using the none auto learn model then limit the amount of fuel changes you make below 1400 RPM. This will solve any issues.
There are two modes that EITMS works in, the first mode is one that richens the mixture to help control idle temperature and the second mode is to cut the cylinders off so it acts like an air pump which helps cool the cylinders. Different models and years bikes are set different from the factory. EITMS started being used in 2005 model year. So your going to get different results based on what you started with as far as EITMS settings.
There are two modes that EITMS works in, the first mode is one that richens the mixture to help control idle temperature and the second mode is to cut the cylinders off so it acts like an air pump which helps cool the cylinders. Different models and years bikes are set different from the factory. EITMS started being used in 2005 model year. So your going to get different results based on what you started with as far as EITMS settings.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
EITMS controls one cylinder on some bikes and both cylinders on other bikes. So if the PC-V uses an auto learn during the time that the cylinders are being effected it will see the exhaust go lean and begin to richen the mixture. This would be a PC-V issue not a MOCO issue. So the easy fix is to not allow this to happen by limiting the PC-V with auto learn so that it ignores (does not learn) below 1400 RPM range. If you are using the none auto learn model then limit the amount of fuel changes you make below 1400 RPM. This will solve any issues.
There are two modes that EITMS works in, the first mode is one that richens the mixture to help control idle temperature and the second mode is to cut the cylinders off so it acts like an air pump which helps cool the cylinders. Different models and years bikes are set different from the factory. EITMS started being used in 2005 model year. So your going to get different results based on what you started with as far as EITMS settings.
There are two modes that EITMS works in, the first mode is one that richens the mixture to help control idle temperature and the second mode is to cut the cylinders off so it acts like an air pump which helps cool the cylinders. Different models and years bikes are set different from the factory. EITMS started being used in 2005 model year. So your going to get different results based on what you started with as far as EITMS settings.
The reason I wanted more control of this area was that since my cam change I was seeing overly rich values between 1250-2750 RPM at 0% TP, especially in the front cylinder. Some of this may be a result of the reversion characteristics of Fuel Moto's mufflers.
Thanks for being here and contributing to this thread.
Last edited by iclick; Mar 19, 2009 at 04:08 PM.
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You can tune it down low but understand that various years and model calibrations EITMS works differently. So if what you have done works for you you just need to look at what calibration your ECM has in it. Then that information could be used by anyone who has that same calibration in there bike. Bottom line is the fuel trims you put into the PC-V effect the engine at all times as far as I know. So if you cannot effect it when EITMS is active the only other choice you have is to not effect it at all in the area that EITMS works. The shut off point for EITMS is 1350 RPM in every calibration that I have worked with so any RPM above that should work for everyone OK. My guess would be that if you played around you could determine at what point in the throttle it was always off by so you could make a small area in a box that you need to stay away from.
Last edited by Steve Cole; Mar 19, 2009 at 08:36 PM.
EITMS was something we checked early in our PC-V testing. We were familiar with its effects and how it worked with PC-V strategy, and I wrote the Auto Tune tables in our maps to reflect these requirements. As Steve noted above heat management works in what Harley calls "phases" making changes to the AFR, igntion timing and ultimately controlling cylinder firing. Simply put you cannot Auto Tune under these conditions which is why you will note in all of our Auto Tune AFR tables that there are no values in this area meaning the AT will not trim, and it is very important that you do not alter the AFR tables to trim in these areas as it may cause an issue for reasons stated above. It is notable that the OP in this thread does not have an Auto Tune. Also notable is that I was also able to replicate this issue on our 09 bike with both the PC-V installed AND completely removed from the bike.
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Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com