Engine kit/ Gearing combo question:
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
From: Martinsville, VA
Engine kit/ Gearing combo question:
Hello all;
I will start with 2 caveats:
1; I have read the motor upgrade threads and the transmission threads. I really haven't seen the answer I need in either.
2; The people I ride with have built 111's and 117's (of the S&S variety) and 6 speed trnsmissions, so their "velocities" would not be condoned by the local constabulary, shall we say. Since I ride a basically stock (Stage 1'd) Electra Glide with a 88, I often times find it dificult to "keep up" with the group.
My question is in two parts:
A) I am wondering what size upgrade kit I need to go with the motor? I have seen sizes anywhere from 95-114 for an 88 but nobody can really explain the difference in terms of SPEED to me, other than "Well'' my bike is faster than the XXX kit, and its smaller than an XXX?"
B) I don't care whether or not my bike stays a 5 speed or goes to a 6 speed. How can I get a taller FINAL gear , so my highway speeds are higher?
My assumption is there is a specific combination of the two I would need for what I'm trying to achieve, but I am not mechanically or mathematically savvy enough to be able to figure it out.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
I will start with 2 caveats:
1; I have read the motor upgrade threads and the transmission threads. I really haven't seen the answer I need in either.
2; The people I ride with have built 111's and 117's (of the S&S variety) and 6 speed trnsmissions, so their "velocities" would not be condoned by the local constabulary, shall we say. Since I ride a basically stock (Stage 1'd) Electra Glide with a 88, I often times find it dificult to "keep up" with the group.
My question is in two parts:
A) I am wondering what size upgrade kit I need to go with the motor? I have seen sizes anywhere from 95-114 for an 88 but nobody can really explain the difference in terms of SPEED to me, other than "Well'' my bike is faster than the XXX kit, and its smaller than an XXX?"
B) I don't care whether or not my bike stays a 5 speed or goes to a 6 speed. How can I get a taller FINAL gear , so my highway speeds are higher?
My assumption is there is a specific combination of the two I would need for what I'm trying to achieve, but I am not mechanically or mathematically savvy enough to be able to figure it out.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Road Captain
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 604
Likes: 64
From:
If I understand you question and what you’re looking for:
Your friends are able to “pull away” from you as they are accelerating to their cursing speed of (guessing 70 to 80+ mph). Your stock bike can reach these speeds, but by the time you get up there, they are quite a distance in front of you.
You want a build that will allow you to reasonably keep up (accelerate) with them.
I think you should look into cams and their performance. A 95 kit can easily be tuned for 100/100, but its TQ (cam)that will get you up to speed.
The key is low end TQ and how much you have at the 2K – 2.5K RPM range, and where it peaks 4K - 4.5K (RPM). A "flat" TQ curve in the 90 - 100 range ( at 2K - 2.5K prm) will move your heavy bike as fast as your friends if not faster from the 30 - 40 mph to a crusing speed of 70 - 80+.
Have you looked at this site? Lots of performance information on different builds.
http://www.nightrider.com
Your friends are able to “pull away” from you as they are accelerating to their cursing speed of (guessing 70 to 80+ mph). Your stock bike can reach these speeds, but by the time you get up there, they are quite a distance in front of you.
You want a build that will allow you to reasonably keep up (accelerate) with them.
I think you should look into cams and their performance. A 95 kit can easily be tuned for 100/100, but its TQ (cam)that will get you up to speed.
The key is low end TQ and how much you have at the 2K – 2.5K RPM range, and where it peaks 4K - 4.5K (RPM). A "flat" TQ curve in the 90 - 100 range ( at 2K - 2.5K prm) will move your heavy bike as fast as your friends if not faster from the 30 - 40 mph to a crusing speed of 70 - 80+.
Have you looked at this site? Lots of performance information on different builds.
http://www.nightrider.com
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
From: Martinsville, VA
Thanks Kenney; You pretty much understand what I'm trying to get across.
What about a taller final gear; for once I actually to get up to them and want to keep the same cruising speed, without sounding like I'm about to blow the motor?
What about a taller final gear; for once I actually to get up to them and want to keep the same cruising speed, without sounding like I'm about to blow the motor?
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,993
Likes: 20
From: Southeast GA
The cruising RPM's in 5th gear in my 2003 EG Classic wasn't much different than the cruising RPM's in my 6 speed bikes. I don't think changing transmissions will be worth the costs.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
From: Martinsville, VA
Thanks Vickers1; you understand the other end of my issue.
Whether its 5th or 6th, or 19th; is there any way to switch out that LAST gear for one that is more suited to the speeds I'd be going to; without putting such a strain on the motor?
Whether its 5th or 6th, or 19th; is there any way to switch out that LAST gear for one that is more suited to the speeds I'd be going to; without putting such a strain on the motor?
Last edited by ranran4; Dec 10, 2012 at 02:00 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 604
Likes: 64
From:
I believe “Red Line” on the stock 88’s is around 62K – 65K RPM. (Suggest if you build a motor set the Max. RPM at 60K so as not to blow it. You may hit 60K RPM going through the gears.) Cursing at 70+MPH @ 28K RPM is nothing for a Bagger. That should be right in the middle of your TQ range. (Great for passing ANYTHING on the road)
IF you change the gearing or sprocket you will be gaining in low end and loosing in top end (cursing speed – takes longer to get up to speed) or just the reverse, Gaining Low end TQ and loosing in Top end Speed (Do you really cruse at 100MPH?)
My experience is cursing at 100 MPH for more than a few miles will beat you to death, even on a (Ultra) bagger. Too many things to watch (road hazards, cars, trucks, animals, etc.) and listen for (engine sounds, sirens, etc.)
Just a thought. Try to get a Demo ride on a 107 from a dealer. Even stock it should be close enough for you to decide if that is the way you want to go (95 Kit at 100/100).
IF you change the gearing or sprocket you will be gaining in low end and loosing in top end (cursing speed – takes longer to get up to speed) or just the reverse, Gaining Low end TQ and loosing in Top end Speed (Do you really cruse at 100MPH?)
My experience is cursing at 100 MPH for more than a few miles will beat you to death, even on a (Ultra) bagger. Too many things to watch (road hazards, cars, trucks, animals, etc.) and listen for (engine sounds, sirens, etc.)
Just a thought. Try to get a Demo ride on a 107 from a dealer. Even stock it should be close enough for you to decide if that is the way you want to go (95 Kit at 100/100).
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
From: Martinsville, VA
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Club Member
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From: Bedford UK
My question is in two parts:
A) I am wondering what size upgrade kit I need to go with the motor? I have seen sizes anywhere from 95-114 for an 88 but nobody can really explain the difference in terms of SPEED to me, other than "Well'' my bike is faster than the XXX kit, and its smaller than an XXX?"
B) I don't care whether or not my bike stays a 5 speed or goes to a 6 speed. How can I get a taller FINAL gear , so my highway speeds are higher?
My assumption is there is a specific combination of the two I would need for what I'm trying to achieve, but I am not mechanically or mathematically savvy enough to be able to figure it out.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
A) I am wondering what size upgrade kit I need to go with the motor? I have seen sizes anywhere from 95-114 for an 88 but nobody can really explain the difference in terms of SPEED to me, other than "Well'' my bike is faster than the XXX kit, and its smaller than an XXX?"
B) I don't care whether or not my bike stays a 5 speed or goes to a 6 speed. How can I get a taller FINAL gear , so my highway speeds are higher?
My assumption is there is a specific combination of the two I would need for what I'm trying to achieve, but I am not mechanically or mathematically savvy enough to be able to figure it out.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
As you have a 5-speed, like me, I suggest you stay with it. Fitting a 6 speed will cost you money, but have no effect on your top speed, except to slow you down. If you leave your gearing as stock, but change your engine to give it more power, it will to go faster. It is then a matter of how fast can you afford to go?!
IMHO you would do well to talk to one of the HDF sponsors who tune and build engines, or visit a local tuning shop. They will explain what you can do and offer a variety of tuning packages. In essence there are several things you can pick and mix from: bigger cylinders, longer stroke crankshaft, ported heads, cams, plus exhaust and tuner. There are options for each of those and you are better off talking to someone in person, rather than allowing us to pepper you with infinite options!
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Road Captain
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 683
Likes: 3
From: Tallahassee, FL
I have a 2005 Ultra, TC88 with 203 cams and SERT. It has respectable power, but certainly not like the big bores. What I did was change my primary gears from a stock 3.15 ratio to a 3.37 ratio. This was done by going from a 25tooth/36tooth combo to a 24tooth/37tooth combo. (24tooth crankshaft gear/37tooth clutch basket gear). I then went to a Baker OVERDRIVE 6 speed, with an overdrive ratio of .86. This combo is expensive but it pretty much accomplishes what you are asking about. At 75 mph I am running about 3,000 rpm. I have the best of both worlds, in that my first five gears pull harder and faster than stock, but I still can cruise on the highway. If you know car rear end ratios, it is similar to the idea of going from a 3.50 rear end ratio to a 3.70 or even 4.11 and installing a 5 speed with OD.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by gambler; Dec 10, 2012 at 02:44 PM.