ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
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Tourer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 393
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From:
ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
Actually it is! I too noticed the wonders of ThunderMax when I installedD&D FatCats on my 07 SG. But....when I replaced these with V&H Big ShotDuals, the bike ran like crap. I installed the Rinehart TD map (393) andgave it over 500miles to tune itself. It just couldn't tune out the heavy vibrations and sluggish pull from 2200-2700 rpms.
So.....I started looking into the timing after I downloaded the new version of the SmartLink software. I heard on other forums that the TMax base maps had very retarded timing to ensure customers did experience any detonation issues. I can see why they would do this to generalized base maps since this will satisfy most users. I needed to do a little work to the base map since I didn't have one of the three TMax base maps (stock, Rineharts, FatCats). I started with the Rinehart map and started to advance the timing. I was leary to do this since I didn't know much about it and didn't want to harm my bike. I searched all over to find recommended settings for TC96 timing maps. The best I could find was a base map for the Daytona Twin Tec ECM. After downloading the free software I was able to read how they setup the timing.
The differences between the TMax and DTT are very drastic. DTT has the timing way more advanced; as much as 7 degrees in some cases. I adjusted the TMax base map to match DTT's and gave the bike a run.
Wow!!! Most of the vibrations were gone and I can feel a significant gain in low end torque. That's exactly what I needed. So, if anyone's running the ThunderMax AutoTune ECM, you may want to look into advancing your timing. There is a lot more in your bike that you're not getting. Here's a copy of my map if you want to see how I've set it up.
You will need to download this file and rename the extension to *.slk so it will be recognized by the SmartLink software.
For example:
From: SEAC_BigShots5_0.txt
To: SEAC_BigShots5_0.slk
So.....I started looking into the timing after I downloaded the new version of the SmartLink software. I heard on other forums that the TMax base maps had very retarded timing to ensure customers did experience any detonation issues. I can see why they would do this to generalized base maps since this will satisfy most users. I needed to do a little work to the base map since I didn't have one of the three TMax base maps (stock, Rineharts, FatCats). I started with the Rinehart map and started to advance the timing. I was leary to do this since I didn't know much about it and didn't want to harm my bike. I searched all over to find recommended settings for TC96 timing maps. The best I could find was a base map for the Daytona Twin Tec ECM. After downloading the free software I was able to read how they setup the timing.
The differences between the TMax and DTT are very drastic. DTT has the timing way more advanced; as much as 7 degrees in some cases. I adjusted the TMax base map to match DTT's and gave the bike a run.
Wow!!! Most of the vibrations were gone and I can feel a significant gain in low end torque. That's exactly what I needed. So, if anyone's running the ThunderMax AutoTune ECM, you may want to look into advancing your timing. There is a lot more in your bike that you're not getting. Here's a copy of my map if you want to see how I've set it up.
You will need to download this file and rename the extension to *.slk so it will be recognized by the SmartLink software.
For example:
From: SEAC_BigShots5_0.txt
To: SEAC_BigShots5_0.slk
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,294
Likes: 33
From: Po-Dunk Looziana
RE: ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
I'd be REAL careful when taking timings from one unit and attempting them to run in a different component especially Speed density vs. Alpha-N concepts. If you take the timings from a SERT and try to apply them to a TMax you may end up with a Twin Cam engine full of twisted parts.
A dyno tune by a qualified tuner is the avenue I'd suggest if you felt timing was affected.
A dyno tune by a qualified tuner is the avenue I'd suggest if you felt timing was affected.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 393
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From:
RE: ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
And what's a tuner going to do? Advance the timing to detonation, then back it down a couple of degrees.
I've run this setup with minimal issues. I did experience detonation from 2300 to 2700 rpms under load. It sounded like chirping right under the tank. I narrowed down the rpms, throttle position, and load when noticed and came back to the garage and tuned it out. If I have anything that comes up later I will quickly try to tune it out by lowering the timing in that range. If that doesn't work I'll reload the previous map. I certainly don't want any twisted parts, but I don't feel that adjusting the timing like this is too much of a risk.
I've run this setup with minimal issues. I did experience detonation from 2300 to 2700 rpms under load. It sounded like chirping right under the tank. I narrowed down the rpms, throttle position, and load when noticed and came back to the garage and tuned it out. If I have anything that comes up later I will quickly try to tune it out by lowering the timing in that range. If that doesn't work I'll reload the previous map. I certainly don't want any twisted parts, but I don't feel that adjusting the timing like this is too much of a risk.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
RE: ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
It is because of bikes like mine. The original map they had out caused the bike to seriously overheat. TMax engineers worked on my bike for quite a while and never solved the problem. I guess the answer was to retard the timing.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,939
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From: TX
RE: ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
ORIGINAL: Z_Stingray
And what's a tuner going to do? Advance the timing to detonation, then back it down a couple of degrees.
And what's a tuner going to do? Advance the timing to detonation, then back it down a couple of degrees.
Hopefully KDietz will pipe in here soon... he's made some really significant progress with his TMax ~ specifically in the area of timing.
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Tourer
Joined: Jul 2007
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RE: ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
Z_Stingray....if you don't mind my asking, how did it run with the stock base map for the Fat Cats? I'm dead set on installing a TMax when I do pipes over the winter and have narrowed down my pipe choices with D&D as my first choice for now. Sure, I plan on tinkering with the setup once I'm comfortable with the unit but I wanted to be sure that I could plug and play out of the box in the meantime. Thanks.
-Nick
-Nick
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Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Mar 2007
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RE: ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
The base map for the FatCats runs great. Even better after I played with it a bit. Here's what I ended up with. I only tweaked the AFRs since the timing maps weren't open for editing then. I would still advance the timing on this map. If it was pulling great torque with this map, I can imagine advancing the timing would put a big smile on your face.
Follow the instructions above to rename the file.
Follow the instructions above to rename the file.