PA License for permit
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PA License for permit - 3/7/2008 1:44:40 PM
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Gregarian
Posts: 63
Joined: 3/6/2008
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I am in PA, licensed for 20 years, and have been hearing more and more chatter regarding the test an applicant must now take in order to obtain their learner's permit. The test includes topics that are not covered in the learner's manual, and some even contradict the manual. I have heard of some failing more than 7 times!! The state is making it nearly impossible for a new rider to obtain their license, which I feel to be an infridgement on ones right to ride. I have no problem with a test being administered, but it needs to be based on information avaialble to the individual being tested, i.e a manual to study prior to taking the test.
Anyone else out there having this problem?
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/7/2008 10:07:37 PM
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kingfisch
Posts: 105
Joined: 7/10/2007
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Try looking for PAMSP.com. It is a MSF course available to PA residents free of charge. The "permit" is a brief test and paperwork. With the permit, you take the MSF course.It took up four weekday evenings two saturdays if I remember correctly.At the end of the course you are licensed! This is the MSF BRC. This course is for beginner riders, but, anybody can take it. I took this course two years ago to assure my wife AND myself that a motorcycle was still within my skillset after a 32 year absence from the sport. I'm 56 and my wife is 53. In two years I have yet to solo "my" Heritage. The wife can't ride enough! She had never ridden before. GOOD LUCK!
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/9/2008 8:51:59 PM
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kingfisch
Posts: 105
Joined: 7/10/2007
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Nice Bike!
I can understand your frustration about this test crap. My case was different. I had a valid MC endorsement from 1968-2006 so I didn't need to go thru the permit process. I took the BRC to evaluate my skill level. I am pleased that I took this course because all my skills were self taught. It opened my eyes that I didn't know as much as I thought I did. My experiences have little or nothing to do with your situation.
I looked up PAMSP.com. They have a large section about the BRC. In this section they have a link (Adobe pdf) to the course manual that is the basis for the BRC test. It is truly DIRT SIMPLE! If you take the BRC, they provide the bikes (250cc putt-putts). The course is geared toward folks who have never ridden before. Yes, parts of it will bore you to distraction. I never knew I would need to learn how to "duck-walk" a bike. The BRC taught me a valuable skill!
Seriously, it's a minor PITA. the permit "tests" are given on touchscreen monitors. The process takes less tan 1/2 hr. Good Luck!!
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/11/2008 11:18:27 AM
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real7jake
Posts: 324
Joined: 3/4/2008
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After riding on my permit in PA for about 4 years, I was finally coerced into taking the permit test when they changed the rules about 2 years back. I failed the first try, but passed 100% the second try. The better half just passed her permit test on the first run about a month ago. Either way, I think if someone reads the materials, they shouldn't have too much trouble.
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/11/2008 12:31:10 PM
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chiabate
Posts: 3462
Joined: 10/26/2006
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Was the knowledge provided what you were after? You should now be all set, good luck.
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/11/2008 6:39:52 PM
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Gregarian
Posts: 63
Joined: 3/6/2008
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The guy who was taking the test passed today, on the third try. All guesswork, questions from the previously failed tests could not even be answered by the administer of the test, even with manual in hand!!
I guess new riders beware, prepare to go back a few times!!
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/11/2008 8:54:20 PM
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Yellotang
Posts: 3150
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gregarian
The guy who was taking the test passed today, on the third try. All guesswork, questions from the previously failed tests could not even be answered by the administer of the test, even with manual in hand!!
I guess new riders beware, prepare to go back a few times!!
Is there anyway that you can challenge the test? Something smells fishy here. I have looked online to see if I can find anyone else having the same issues and I am not finding squat. You may want to contact your local MSF or ABATE and ask these questions.
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/11/2008 9:36:21 PM
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kingfisch
Posts: 105
Joined: 7/10/2007
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Glad to hear that your friend passed the test.
I would like to present a counterpoint. Your original post suggested to me, that, when PA changed their licenseing standards (1/1/06) to require testing to obtain a MC permit it is infringing a riders rights. Part of me would readily agree with you based on my disdain for increasing govt. intrusion. The other part of me accepts the changes. This MC sport, life style, obsession or however any of us views it is full of risk. We volunteer to take these risks realizing that by getting a "license" we are paying for a privilige. I see this as thing as beneficial in the long run. I would think that testing for a permit would weed out some who shouldn't even consider a MC. Those that pass (even with multiple tries) would be better cantidates for whatever MC training they go for. Better trained riders are usually safer riders. I know all too well that MC training is a never ending process.
This whole thing is an issue of education (or lack thereof). A common theme that surrounds us is a "dumbing down" of many facets of our lives. I can hope that this raising standards for MC riders goes beyond political puffery. It wouldn't surprise me a bit that there was a heavy involvement by the Insurance industry. It's easy to pick on a "minority" which is exactly where we fall. Given the political climate in PA it may be time for our "minority" to assert ourselves. What might happen if raising the bar for all vehicle licenses required a segment of "Motor Cycle Awareness" as a condition of obtaining a license? Yeah right, never happen. Be stepping on too many toes!
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/12/2008 7:58:59 AM
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Gregarian
Posts: 63
Joined: 3/6/2008
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Ya, I don't have issue with having to take a test to obtain your permit, but they better provide the information that is covered in the test to the applicant to study. The manual does not cover all the potential questions on the exam, which changes every time you take it. They pull 20 questions randomly when you go to take the test. Some of the questions relate to what you learn in the rider course, but without a permit, you can't take the rider course! If they want to administer an exam to obtain the permit, they should also have a pre-rider class available as well, or at least provide a manual that has the answers to all the potential test questions.
I am all for weeding out those who don't belong on a bike, they are the ones crashin' and dyin', and giving us a bad name!
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/12/2008 8:04:02 AM
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Gregarian
Posts: 63
Joined: 3/6/2008
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Hey Yellotang,
The guy did confront the examiners when he failed a few times. To their credit, they did try and locate the answers for him in the "manual". Several they failed to do so, and some they found contradicting information.
ABATE meeting this Saturday!!
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/12/2008 8:58:38 AM
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chiabate
Posts: 3462
Joined: 10/26/2006
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Uniform standards should be the goal here. Are they using the MSF model? Are they using the Oregon standard? Shouldn't be a problem for riders for either scenario as long as a uniform set of rules are adopted.
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Doing my part to preserve Freedom of the Road, are you?
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/12/2008 1:33:33 PM
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rkcrwlr
Posts: 240
Joined: 6/14/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Terry1955
In Illinois the driving test (on a parking lot course) is so difficult to complete on a Harley most riders rent a 250 Honda Rebel to take it. You can't make the corners unless you are one of those "Ride Like A Pro" guys on the DVD.
Same deal here in Utah. You basically can not pass the field test with a cruiser/tourer if doing the DMV test. I went the MSF route, and am very glad I did (great course). Taught with the Rebel so its muchmore doable. Replaces the DMV ride test in most cases.
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07 Road King Classic
Fire Red Pearl/Black Pearl
Rinehart TDs
TMax AT
AN Stage 1
WO518s
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/13/2008 8:34:12 AM
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chiabate
Posts: 3462
Joined: 10/26/2006
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Sounds just like different departments at most dealers. Marketing vs. inventory vs. service vs. parts vs. hours of operation, etc!
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/13/2008 6:10:40 PM
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Streetmed
Posts: 181
Joined: 2/21/2007
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I let my license lapse from NY when I moved to PA, and just recently decided to be above the boards and get my class "M" back. Took the permit test it was a piece of cake. Look if you cant pass it after reading the manual, not even reading how about glancing there might be bigger issues. I am a bumbling moron for the most part and passed it, I think the problem is people have test anxiety and freak out. JMTC!
Ride On!
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/19/2008 2:27:54 PM
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chiabate
Posts: 3462
Joined: 10/26/2006
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That's been there since the first day I joined the forum. If it stimulates some brain waves among the "I just wanna ride, man" crowd, that's the intent. Freedom ain't free!quote:
ORIGINAL: Yellotang
chiabate, I love your sig quote.
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Doing my part to preserve Freedom of the Road, are you?
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/21/2008 9:48:11 AM
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Crazy Biker
Posts: 3186
Joined: 6/18/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gregarian
I am in PA, licensed for 20 years, and have been hearing more and more chatter regarding the test an applicant must now take in order to obtain their learner's permit. The test includes topics that are not covered in the learner's manual, and some even contradict the manual. I have heard of some failing more than 7 times!! The state is making it nearly impossible for a new rider to obtain their license, which I feel to be an infridgement on ones right to ride. I have no problem with a test being administered, but it needs to be based on information avaialble to the individual being tested, i.e a manual to study prior to taking the test.
Anyone else out there having this problem?
The correct way to spell: infringement & available
It's very hard to go through life being stupid. If someone can't pass that very easy test they shouldn't be on a motorcycle. When I went through the safety course everyone in my class passed, even a girl that never ridden a motorcycle before that class passed.
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2007 FXSTC
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/21/2008 2:59:23 PM
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Gregarian
Posts: 63
Joined: 3/6/2008
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Hey Crazy,
I am not speaking of the safety course, I am referring to instances of wanna be riders going to get their permit. The test they are subjected to is not as easy as you say. When we got our permits 20 years ago, we didn't have to take an exam, we just paid up and voila...
I didn't know this site was so full of d!cks...
< Message edited by Yellotang -- 3/21/2008 5:44:40 PM >
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/21/2008 5:45:41 PM
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Yellotang
Posts: 3150
Joined: 4/24/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gregarian
Hey Crazy,
I am not speaking of the safety course, I am referring to instances of wanna be riders going to get their permit. The test they are subjected to is not as easy as you say. When we got our permits 20 years ago, we didn't have to take an exam, we just paid up and voila...
I didn't know this site was so full of d!cks...
Yes there are a lot of jerks on this board. It seems to go with the territory of owning a MC. 
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/25/2008 1:42:28 PM
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skootchnc
Posts: 381
Joined: 1/30/2008
Status: online
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I took NC's MSF-BRC a number of years ago, on their Suxuki 250.... I had a blast, learned a lot, and even learned I had many strong skills.... and a few weaks ones, I've been woking on. Last month, a few of my friends and I took the ERC (Experienced Rider Course). we used our own bikes, and part of the class was the BOX! figure 8's on a HD Road Glide is a trip.... could I do it as well as on those 250's? Heck NO!..... but the key to the class is learning.....
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05 Road Glide
AMA
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Wet Butt Riders Assn.
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RE: PA License for permit - 3/25/2008 10:48:31 PM
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freekdawg1200
Posts: 1146
Joined: 11/5/2006
From: Just north of Philly!
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I kept renewing my permit for years before I got the Harley.That new permit test is a piece of cake.Most of the questions are common sense.If you can't pass it,you probaly should not be on two wheels.I didn't have a bike for a couple of years,so imagine my surprise when I went to the tag shop to get another permit and was told I had to take a test to get one.No biggie,went to the local driving center and aced the test with a 100%.I didn't have to study for it.I also took the BRC at the local community college and that was a joke.I did learn a few things,but some of the people that passed the course were downright scary to watch.
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1999 1200C
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RE: PA License for permit - 6/26/2008 8:47:34 PM
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Dyna_Soar
Posts: 162
Joined: 5/21/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Crazy Biker
quote:
ORIGINAL: Gregarian
I am \\;in PA, licensed for 20 years, and have been hearing more and more chatter regarding the test an applicant must now take in order to obtain their learner''s permit. \\; The test includes topics that are not covered in the learner''s manual, and some even contradict the manual. \\; I have heard of some failing more than 7 times!! \\; The state is making it nearly impossible for a new rider to obtain their license, which I feel to be an infridgement on ones right to ride. \\; I have no problem with a test being administered, but it needs to be based on information avaialble to the individual being tested, i.e a manual to study prior to taking the test. \\;
Anyone else out there having this problem?
The correct way to spell: infringement &\\; available
It''s very hard to go through life being stupid. If someone can''t pass that very easy test they shouldn''t be on a motorcycle. When I went through the safety course everyone in my class passed, even a girl that never ridden a motorcycle before that class passed.
\\;
"even a girl that HAD never ridden a motorcycle before that class passed."
\\;
Fair is fair, professor.
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RE: PA License for permit - 6/27/2008 6:17:56 AM
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jaysonL
Posts: 1149
Joined: 11/12/2005
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Seriously, I have taken the test 3 times, and passed all three times. All one has to do is  . It isn''t as contradicting as you think it is. They do place you in a predicament that you have to know the State''s statistics on accidents to get correct. Study, just a little, and you can easily pass.
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