Nevada, your misrepresentation of my statements and negative hyperbole is becoming ridiculous. You're embarrassing yourself.

I was clearly talking about sweatshops in Asia where most manufacturing is done these days, and where many American jobs have gone. And we know why.

We complain about quality but perhaps we should also question the ethics of it?

Whether Harley riders are "caring" or not is an entirely separate issue that I never questioned ... however, have I never seen any talk of concern about ethics in the supply chain within the motorcycle industry in the same way as, say, Apple recently had their asses kicked when it was discovered worker were working 60 hour weeks, unreasonable shifts and committing suicide.

Obvious European workers are paid more and are better protected. Part of buying American is also the knowledge that the workers are being paid a living wage and have some protection, and care a little.

I think you are confusing a highly exploitative form of capitalism with "America". Many Americans do care about 'fair trade' and sweatshop exploitations; others just care about the price and wouldn't bother if items were made by foreign slave labour.

Which side do you take?

 

I'll take the best quality at the most competitive price all day long. BTW why do you mention slave labor? Are you suggesting workers in Thailand, Korea, Japan, China, India are slaves?

 

Again - nice try. But FAIL. You prove my point by addressing me but quoting another here who knows what you are all about.

And speaking of embarrassing one's self - at least I don't cite extinct or no longer used oem suppliers to support my claims. You obviously know jack sh*t about motorcycles. You won't even tell us what you ride. My guess is a R6 with lots of "Coexist" stickers on it, and reside somewhere in the UK. Too bad as there are some fine members here from that area. You do not represent them well.

See? You just can't help yourself. You toss around insults about American work ethic and when called on it, you back pedal. If it were a slip here and there, it would be overlooked. But you are very consistent. On every thread you post on here at HDForums you get in a dig at America, back pedal, get in more digs, try to rationalize/justify, and eventually crawl back under your rock.

That's your signal to proceed to the last phase of your very predictable input here.

 

LOL you may have moved up incrementally, from least reliable to "2nd least reliable". Should have bypassed Harley and gone straight up to Yamaha!
I'm just kidding of course.


A new survey conducted by the Consumer Reports National Research Center finds BMW and Harley-Davidson owners are much more likely to report major problems with their motorcycles than owners of Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha motorcycles.

The survey, which will appear on the April 2013 issue of Consumer Reports, says one in three BMW owners reported experiencing a major problem with their bikes in the last four years. Harley-Davidson owners were slightly better, with one in four reporting serious issues....

BMW was/is aware of their problems though. I saw an interview by a UK publication where one of BMW Motorrad's executives admitted they had too many unacceptable quality issues. He said it was partially fueled by their obsession for increasing production in the decade of 2000-2010 with 2006-07 being the worst. And about that time they really started focusing on quality and it's paying off now.

I've heard of final drive failures and a few main seal leaks but knock on wood riding BMW's since 1977 I've never been stranded or experienced any failure while on the road, or home for that matter. The only failure on a Harley was the starter relay on my 2004 Dyna. And that wasn't a big deal because I was able to bump start it.

 

This thread comparing 2 different motorcycles has strayed way off course, it has gotten political and somewhat personal...maybe time to take it into the Off Topic section where it now belongs or maybe time for the Moderator to step in...just sayin'!

 

I have no problem with people loving their BMWs.

I do have a problem with Dun Roamin's constant hate of America, and Americans. I might not mind it, if he would tell us what is the source of his disdain.

I wish Harley would publish their domestic content to shut people like him up. I live in Wisconsin and meet many people who manufacture engine and suspension components for HD suppliers. I haven't met many Honda subcontractors.

 

The BMW/Harley tourer discussion interests me. I'm a fan of both brands.

The other stuff was mildly entertaining for awhile, now it's just tedious.

 

I'm from the UK so I can be neutral


I have had both 1200RT and I've just picked up the new RGS - in pure motorcycle terms I'd say the BMW all day long as the best bike. HOWEVER, the perp is in America and by the sounds BMW dealers there are pretty thin on the ground compared to the domestic offering of the HD. In his shoes I'd probably choose the RG, in my shoes I'd still choose the RG as all my friends ride HD.


Its a good bike the HD, obviously more expensive here than with my American friends but hey I choose that path. Moving on....

 

All I can tell you is from my personal experience. I started riding BMW in 1999 and have owned airheads, K bikes and a GSA. The most dependable of them all was the old airheads, but that's not saying much since I was always fiddling with something, or replacing leaky seals, or new Pistons or rewiring something. I never had an actual "trip ending" breakdown on an airhead, but then again, I did find myself in the middle of an auto parts store parking lot for a day and a half in 95 degree heat trying to trace down an electrical gremlin that kept running my battery down.

I bought a brand new K1200LTC that was the biggest POS I've ever owned out of all my vehicles, cars, trucks, motorcycles, boats, you name it. In 25k miles that bike left me stranded twice, caused me to cancel at least 4 planned vacations, introduced me to the concept of having a "backup bike" and was the catalyst for my getting into HD to begin with. I bought a 2007 Softail Deluxe that I absolutely loved, except for the ground clearance. When I ended up putting 10k miles on the Softail without a single glitch, while in the meantime the LT needed to be torn in half in order to replace a rear main seal at under 15k miles, I knew it was time to make a change. The LT was in the shop so much in the 25k miles I owned it, I became personal friends with the service manager who I still stay in touch with years later. True story.

I went to a GSA thinking it would at least be easier to service, and although it was definitely better than the LT, it had its own share of BS happen. The final straw was the final drive letting go in the middle of the desert in 110 degree heat 200 miles from help, with only just under 16k miles on it.

So, again, I can only speak from my experience. But BMW is a **** quality vehicle and I won't own another one even though I much prefer the riding position and handling, unless/until BMW makes huge strides in their quality.

That they charge as much as HD for such an inferior product is, in my opinion, unethical. Based on my experience.

 

Apple Stock 5 year

Just stop. Stop your anti-American nonsense, your easily disproved claims, your commentary about America and capitalism. Just stop all of it. Go actually LIVE in a European country, I implore you. Go to one of your utopian societies and actually try to make a living there. Stay for a decade, and then let us know how terrible the U.S. is.

It's folks who have never actually been outside of their comfy and safe American cocoon who make these kinds of childish claims.