I installed a set of Vance and Hines Twin Slash mufflers on my 2020 107 Lowrider. Loved the look, but a tad too loud. I then installed a set of Vance and Hines Quiet Baffles. They're larger baffles, wrapped in fiberglass. They quieted it down quite a bit and are only slightly, if any, louder than stock. I'm getting only an occasional decel pop that's barely noticeable. I know I can change to a slip-on muffler or air cleaner without having to install the Harley tuner, but if I change both, a tuner is required. So here's the question - Given the much baffled mufflers I have, is it possible to go with an Stage 1 air filter without a tuner?
Thanks

 

I wouldn't do it. Your bike isn't going to melt down. But it isn't going to run well either. Plus you may be voiding your warranty since they say a tuner is required.

 

I'm kind of mixed on this. Running a Cobra 2-into-1 pipe and a great big K&N oval filter on my 107 Low Rider. Rode it for about 30 minutes before flashing with a Fuel Moto tune, mix of back roads, cruising, and power speed runs. Bike ran surprisingly well - good power, low end torque, minimal soft popping. Really did not run much better with the tune loaded, but haven't tried the auto-tune feature yet either (which Jaime recommended). Will do that Monday when the weather looks decent.

One of the guys over at DK Customs maintains that stage 1 tunes really aren't that necessary - and has dyno charts to prove it.
http://www.dkcustomproducts.com/acl/...sting-info.htm
I'm not sure which of these charts to point you to - might not be on this page - but they did post one with full stage one (pipes and air cleaner) with a stock tune showing the power, torque, and fuel-air ratios were all good.

That said, it's "gospel" on this forum that pipes + air cleaner REQUIRES a tune. I'm not as convinced, but the $400 tuner was worth it for peace of mind. Plus, I'll be adding cams this summer anyway.

 

+1

 

Not a good idea to go full stage 1 without a new tune. If you stick with just the V&H slip-on mufflers with the quite baffles, you are probably OK. BUT, you are not getting the benefits from a Stage 1. After many discussions with a mechanic I trust, I believe you have three options.
1. Don't do a Stage 1, just stick with the new slip-on mufflers.
2. On my last bike (a 2017 1200 Sportster), I used V&H slip-on V&H slip-on mufflers with quite baffles (cranky old neighbor called the police on me), a HD high flow air cleaner and the V&H FP3 tuner. I loved this set up. The technical service department at V&H is the best. The decel "fire cracker" option didn't get rid of the decel popping, so, the tech people at V&H analyzed my bike over the phone, developed a custom mapping, and downloaded it to my bike over the phone. The custom mapping worked great; it improved both performance and throttle control. I was also able to leave the FP3 on the bike and constantly monitor multiple performance criteria over my iPhone and quickly clear any code warnings. I miss the FP3. If you go with this option, your bike will run better and cooler. You will also save money because you can do all of the labor yourself, including the tuning. But, your warranty will be toast.
3. On my 2019 Softail Low Rider, I installed the S&S Grand National slip-on mufflers, a HD high flow air cleaner, and had the dealer do a DynoTune using the HD SE tuner. This combination keeps my warranty 100% intact, complies with CA noise laws, and significantly improved the throttle control. Performance improvement was marginal, but the higher air flow and richer fuel mixture should help keep the engine cooler in the summer in my area (Las Vegas) where it gets really hot. TIP: I told my dealer that I wanted to wait until it had a special on a DynoTune. It offered me a $300 discount on the DynoTuned on the spot.

BTW: I am extremely satisfied with my Low Rider. It is the perfect bike for my riding use and physical attributes (short arms and legs). If you have brake problems (e.g., squealing, poor rear brake performance, front brake grabbing), don't listen to HD BS. The OE brake pads on the Low Rider are a widely known problem that HD refuses to acknowledge. Buy the Lyndall Gold+ pads and have them installed ASAP.

Hope you like your Low Rider as much as I like mine.

 

Good enough reason to get the tuner now. something you're going to use.
I always ended up with a tuner on my stage I's, even though the bike ran fine without one, after auto-tuning they always ran a bit better and smoother, especially leaving from a stop.

 

You think your bike is running just fine. Until you load a good map with a decent tuner. Then you see what you have been missing. I am always amazed at the difference it makes

 

absolutely ok with you!

 

EPA slammed HD with restrictions, now everyone thinks stage 1 a set of mufflers, and a tuner.
Stage one: Full exhaust, back plate intake, tuner, and a dyno.
This gives your engine a lil better breathing/exhaust but until you cam it it's money not spent very well.
Professional advice with the M8, forget warranty once you know it's a jam up scooter you have and concentarte on the jugs first. There is an aftermarket piston, 11:1 that'll fit your existing heads and give you much better performance.
The M8 done right is a mean machine. Heads, cam, intake, tuner, and a dyno, but for what they want to do that you could have slapped a 131 in there.

EDIT: With that said a lil more advice, check your production date code. 2019, June, HD started installing the 2020 oil pump to replace the earlier faulty oil pump. Surprised there wasnt a recall on it.
You should upgrade that while upgrading any enginne performance you do.
Just a lil advice for those thinking stage 2 or better. I am.

 

changing the oil pump is clearly a good thing to do in order to make the engine more reliable. Cam the engine is surely a good thing too but with a Powervision you can adjust torque tables first and obtain very good upgrades and it's free...