Cam without a tune?
Cruiser
Joined: May 2022
Posts: 227
Likes: 133
From: California
Fuel moto will create a base map for you for $99 based on what mods youve done to the bike. Itll be a very rich map when you get it, so its recommended to run autotune a few times. Besides that you can take it to get professionally tuned for around $500, $700 if you dont have a tune license.
hope this helps you.
hope this helps you.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 32,934
Likes: 36,031
From: Carlsbad, CA
Isnt it ironic that Vance & Hines is located in California, yet cant sell their products in California.
BTW yeah you probably want to do it yourself, but might be worth a scenic ride to Oregon to get a dyno tune.
BTW yeah you probably want to do it yourself, but might be worth a scenic ride to Oregon to get a dyno tune.
Last edited by TriGeezer; Sep 3, 2025 at 11:00 AM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,322
Likes: 731
From: Pennsylvania
In and of itself, I would support a tuner with any stage 1 upgrade. I live in PA. I purchased my 19 Heritage used with 6k miles. It has a heavy breather and Rinehart pipes. Through some research in cooperation with various dealerships and their software, I determined there was never a tuner added. It was either permitted by a dealership or he installed the pipes himself.
My point is my wife has a purchased-new 21 Heritage. We had V&H pipes installed on hers with a Harley tuner on purchase. Hers sounds great and actually gets slightly better gas mileage than mine. Not enough to get excited about but still something to make you say "hmm"
I plan on getting a new cam in a few years, mainly for better sound. My M8 has some sort of annoying "whistle" that must go. I do not GAF about the performance and all that. My bike runs just fine and has plenty of power for the way I ride. But I do believe a tuner, while not essential per se, it is a real good idea. Just like taking a RWD car out in heavy snow. Can you get around? Sure. Would you be best served with 4WD, or FWD? Absolutely.
To the OP, I suppose the obvious questions would be: 1) As stated, could you purchase a tuner somehow through a third party and have it installed - by someone? "Illegal" maybe but we can all agree CA is a PITA on many things. This is certainly one of them. 2) If so, then do you get flagged, fined or spanked if you get it inspected and the bike red-flags on the "computer"? I don't have the answers. Just food for thought. I'd ask around. If your performance is failing, then a tuner might be worth the effort. If not, then maybe just let it be.
JMHO
My point is my wife has a purchased-new 21 Heritage. We had V&H pipes installed on hers with a Harley tuner on purchase. Hers sounds great and actually gets slightly better gas mileage than mine. Not enough to get excited about but still something to make you say "hmm"
I plan on getting a new cam in a few years, mainly for better sound. My M8 has some sort of annoying "whistle" that must go. I do not GAF about the performance and all that. My bike runs just fine and has plenty of power for the way I ride. But I do believe a tuner, while not essential per se, it is a real good idea. Just like taking a RWD car out in heavy snow. Can you get around? Sure. Would you be best served with 4WD, or FWD? Absolutely.
To the OP, I suppose the obvious questions would be: 1) As stated, could you purchase a tuner somehow through a third party and have it installed - by someone? "Illegal" maybe but we can all agree CA is a PITA on many things. This is certainly one of them. 2) If so, then do you get flagged, fined or spanked if you get it inspected and the bike red-flags on the "computer"? I don't have the answers. Just food for thought. I'd ask around. If your performance is failing, then a tuner might be worth the effort. If not, then maybe just let it be.
JMHO
Last edited by bduds65; Sep 5, 2025 at 07:29 AM.
Road Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 418
From: Pennsylvania
OP already installed the cam, so he needs a tune. Thats not even in question.
Having done this job a few times myself, aside from the fact that the money is already spent, nobody would want to then do all that work again to re-install the stock cam.
Best read what people write before offering an opinion.
Last edited by chunks; Sep 5, 2025 at 09:34 AM.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,315
Likes: 1,663
From: Tampa
You can run the bike with a Stage 1, cam, and stock tune, but it's not optimal. As long as the bike is running in closed loop, the oxygen sensors will tell the ECM where and when to add fuel.
The O2 sensors are typically being used at constant throttle and maybe light acceleration. As soon as you gas it, the ECM goes into Open Loop and uses other engine parameters for fueling (like manifold pressure, RPM, etc...) That's when you'll go lean since now your engine parameters need more fuel than it used to when it was stock. Typically all that happens is it'll run warmer and you might get pings on heavy throttle up hills on a hot engine.
That being said, there's a limit to what the stock tune can do. You shouldn't go 131ci on a 107ci tune. It might start, and run at constant throttle, but you'll be super lean everywhere else.
As far as getting around CA, I'm sure there's someone local to you who could provide input. See if you can find an Indy. An Independent motorcycle shop, specific to Harleys. Since motorcycles aren't checked for emissions, there's gotta be a way around it locally. Otherwise you'll need a middleman to ship a tuner to. Ever since the EPA cracked down on the tuner scene, even checking "For Race Use Only" on the order screen isn't enough to get your hot rod parts into CA.
The O2 sensors are typically being used at constant throttle and maybe light acceleration. As soon as you gas it, the ECM goes into Open Loop and uses other engine parameters for fueling (like manifold pressure, RPM, etc...) That's when you'll go lean since now your engine parameters need more fuel than it used to when it was stock. Typically all that happens is it'll run warmer and you might get pings on heavy throttle up hills on a hot engine.
That being said, there's a limit to what the stock tune can do. You shouldn't go 131ci on a 107ci tune. It might start, and run at constant throttle, but you'll be super lean everywhere else.
As far as getting around CA, I'm sure there's someone local to you who could provide input. See if you can find an Indy. An Independent motorcycle shop, specific to Harleys. Since motorcycles aren't checked for emissions, there's gotta be a way around it locally. Otherwise you'll need a middleman to ship a tuner to. Ever since the EPA cracked down on the tuner scene, even checking "For Race Use Only" on the order screen isn't enough to get your hot rod parts into CA.
Last edited by Mattbastard; Sep 6, 2025 at 07:25 AM.
Road Master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,096
Likes: 418
From: Pennsylvania
Running that way long term could (potentially) be damaging to the motor from excessive heat running too lean all the time, not to mention not getting the performance
that was the whole reason for installing the cam in the first place.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
langwilliams
Ignition/Tuner/ECM/Fuel Injection
16
Oct 16, 2017 09:22 AM