lifter weirdness...
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: May 2010
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From: Aussie lost in Switzerland
lifter weirdness...
Is there a situation or failure condition where the piston inside a hydraulic lifter doesn't return or recover quick enough after the cam has lifted it?
3 times now I've been riding and noticed an increase in valve train noise that gets louder to the point of making a god damn racket, turned out to be the rear cylinder exhaust push rod having lash, and 3 times I've checked the same push rod and every time I've got a lot of lash. The lifter nuts are not loose, or haven't loosened. I'll readjust, tighten it all up and after about 30 mins on the road the noise comes back, I've got lash in the pushrod again.....
I know the push rod is adjusted correctly and is not coming loose, so thinking it's a lifter problem. Not rockers, sorted those with rock outs during my build and have checked them since.
3 times now I've been riding and noticed an increase in valve train noise that gets louder to the point of making a god damn racket, turned out to be the rear cylinder exhaust push rod having lash, and 3 times I've checked the same push rod and every time I've got a lot of lash. The lifter nuts are not loose, or haven't loosened. I'll readjust, tighten it all up and after about 30 mins on the road the noise comes back, I've got lash in the pushrod again.....
I know the push rod is adjusted correctly and is not coming loose, so thinking it's a lifter problem. Not rockers, sorted those with rock outs during my build and have checked them since.
Last edited by Krazy8s; Jun 7, 2018 at 10:33 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
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From: Philly Suburbs
While I can't answer your specific question, I will concur with your thread title... I've always found there to be some weirdness with hydraulic lifters. The nuances of when they're pumped up, when they're bled down, did the preload adjustment move the lifter piston or the valve, etc... I'm not saying I don't understand how they work, I do. And I've changed them and adjusted them successfully a bunch of times. But it's not uncommon that I find myself doing it more than once because I'm just not confident that all the variables are correct... Solid lifters are so much more straightforward. Sometimes I miss my old Ironhead Sporty! 
But as to your question... Is it always the same pushrod that suddenly develops lash? I know that "best practice" is to keep each lifter in it's original hole, but you could try swapping that lifter with another (as long as you keep them oriented properly) to see whether the problem follows the lifter...
But as to your question... Is it always the same pushrod that suddenly develops lash? I know that "best practice" is to keep each lifter in it's original hole, but you could try swapping that lifter with another (as long as you keep them oriented properly) to see whether the problem follows the lifter...
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
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From: NW Ohio
A few things come to mind. And, like F86, I dislike hydraulic lash adjusters on performance toys.
Poor oil pressure, debris in (or otherwise leaking) check ball (inside lifter), excess bore-to-lifter clearance allowing oil bypass.
Can your lifters be disassembled for cleaning/inspection?
Was it happening at low RPM (Lower oil pressure)? Does it improve at higher RPM (higher oil pressure)?
What kind of ambient temperatures you at? And what weight oil?
Poor oil pressure, debris in (or otherwise leaking) check ball (inside lifter), excess bore-to-lifter clearance allowing oil bypass.
Can your lifters be disassembled for cleaning/inspection?
Was it happening at low RPM (Lower oil pressure)? Does it improve at higher RPM (higher oil pressure)?
What kind of ambient temperatures you at? And what weight oil?
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: May 2010
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From: Aussie lost in Switzerland
Running new fueling lifters. Problem seems to develope regardless of the rev range. Oil currently is Amsoil 20/50. Not entirely happy with the amsoil to be honest. Seems it's viscosity turns to pretty much water after it warms up. It could be part of the problem as the lifter may not be retaining enough oil for the hydraulic action to work properly.
I'm gonna dump the Amsoil after I complete my 1000 mile break in and go with something better.
Readjuated the push rod last night, just got back from a 40 mile round trip. Started out nice and quiet and got home with the clatter again...
I'm gonna dump the Amsoil after I complete my 1000 mile break in and go with something better.
Readjuated the push rod last night, just got back from a 40 mile round trip. Started out nice and quiet and got home with the clatter again...
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Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4,576
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From: Viet Vet, crossroads
A couple of things as an amateur engineer with bad math skills-and for discussion
Most oil experts will tell you DONT use synthetic for break-in,
as the rings may not seat properly.
2, - oil-pour points- at hot ambient most oils have the same poor points as far as viscosity..so saying it seems like oil
does this or that...is most definitely probably usually ..wrong.
read the charts and see.
Lifters-
Useing a qualtiy lifter is most important!
Next- proper lifter adjustment is utmost as I can think of at least one lifter company that does it a little differently than most others.' (Johnson Hi-lift)
And last but perhaps most important- Push rod thread pitch is not the same for every brand.
To get X amount of lifter preload, measure B4 you start.
Don't rely on others as experts.
Most oil experts will tell you DONT use synthetic for break-in,
as the rings may not seat properly.
2, - oil-pour points- at hot ambient most oils have the same poor points as far as viscosity..so saying it seems like oil
does this or that...is most definitely probably usually ..wrong.
read the charts and see.
Lifters-
Useing a qualtiy lifter is most important!
Next- proper lifter adjustment is utmost as I can think of at least one lifter company that does it a little differently than most others.' (Johnson Hi-lift)
And last but perhaps most important- Push rod thread pitch is not the same for every brand.
To get X amount of lifter preload, measure B4 you start.
Don't rely on others as experts.
Cruiser
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 117
Likes: 21
From: Minnesota
If it makes you feel any better I have the same problem on my 2010 Ultra. I just replaced lifters and pushrods and I still get at intermittent very loud clicking for 20 seconds or so every once in a while. I just can't figure it out. It must be from the rocker arm. The bike has 70K on it, the problem really started when it had about 40K on it. The problem is it is so intermittent and brief when it occurs I can't get off the bike to listen fast enough to track the noise down.
Banned
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 4,576
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From: Viet Vet, crossroads
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Stellar HDF Member
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From: Aussie lost in Switzerland
Already installed, it's definitely a lifter issue, just trying to work out why....
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Outstanding HDF Member
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From: Philly Suburbs
As I understand it, you've completely narrowed this down and are confident that additional lash is developing, not just additional noise. As Kingglide pointed out, make sure you pay attention to the TPI and the number of flats on your pushrods. When I first did mine, I had rods that were 24 TPI with only four flats... None of the commonly published ways of counting were accurate. I decided I wanted to end up with about .0145 and did the math myself backwards from there.
If you're really sure that everything is adjusted correctly, I still think you should try moving the one lifter to another spot (assuming it always happens in the same place, as previously stated). If the problem follows the lifter, it's probably a bad lifter. If it doesn't, there's nothing wrong with the lifter.
One more thought, and I really don't mean to imply that you don't know what you're doing... But I once did something SUPER boneheaded with this (tired, stressed, etc)... I measured, counted, adjusted, all completely accurately... Then I tightened the locknut against the pushrod end instead of the body. It obviously started getting shorter as soon as I tried to ride anywhere... Heh heh...
If you're really sure that everything is adjusted correctly, I still think you should try moving the one lifter to another spot (assuming it always happens in the same place, as previously stated). If the problem follows the lifter, it's probably a bad lifter. If it doesn't, there's nothing wrong with the lifter.
One more thought, and I really don't mean to imply that you don't know what you're doing... But I once did something SUPER boneheaded with this (tired, stressed, etc)... I measured, counted, adjusted, all completely accurately... Then I tightened the locknut against the pushrod end instead of the body. It obviously started getting shorter as soon as I tried to ride anywhere... Heh heh...