Three dealers I talked to all said you need the download even if just slip ons are installed. But then again, it's an extra $150 for them. Another dealer told me don't even add slip ons without doing a full stage one. Kind of leaves one up in the air of what to do.

 

I just installed the SE II slip-ons this weekend. The dealer was out of the Ness Big Sucker AC so I ordered it and will be in a few days. At that time will put it on and have the download put in as well. The dealership told me not to get the bike too hot, like driving across the country etc. I can tell you by just changing the pipes that it makes a world of difference. The stock pipes show no daylight through them! Man those stock pipes really choke the motor down.
So the safest thing would be to go ahead and get the download if you think you will drive it alot or drive it real hard before doing the Air cleaner. I have driven it alittle bit with no popping or backfires, but still probably borderline lean. But the bike runs good. Can't wait until the AC and dwonload are done!

LeavenworthJeff
05 FXDI Silver

 

Some good points there.My question.I have a 92 flstc with baffled dragpipes(duals but not true duals) have a crossover.Can I put SE II mufflers on without rejetting ??

 

My experience was a little different. I tried the SEII slip-ons without the download. Bike ran okay, but seemed to have a flat spot in the mid-range. No popping or anything, but it was running lean. I got the Stage I download and it improved drastically. Power really went up and the bike ran great. Then I added the SE/AC and a KN filter, and now I am back to square one. Bike runs good (no popping or anything), but seems a bit flat in the midrange. I'm going to buy a SERT.

 

I've mentioned this in another thread, but I had a similar experience, just in a different order. I got the download and se/ac and the bike ran absolutely great with regular 06 slipons (basically the stock muffler in a slash down style). I added the seIIs, and it just hasn't ran as good. It's subtle, but it's a little flat. it seemed worse at first, i'm not sure if it corrected itself or I just got used to it. I pulled the plugs and they're somewhat white. But it sure sounds a helluva lot better with the seIIs!! I might try putting the stock ac back on and see how much that helps the leanness.

 

I predict that you'll find it runs a lot better once you put the stock AC back on it. Like you said, it's a very subtle problem. There is no popping on decel or anything like that, there is just a spot in the rpm range where the bike feels flat and the exhaust note just doesn't sound right. I suspect there is a lean spot in the download and the spark knock sensors are retarding the timing in that area. That would account for the flat spot, the dip in power, and also the change in the exhaust note. It's really nothing more than a minor miss in the midrange.

The SEIIs are a lot nicer than the '06 slash cut mufflers. Like you said, those are basically stock mufflers. I think I read where the download is described by HD as being for the SE/AC only and the SEIIs slipons are not mentioned. My theory is this - the stock mufflers (or the '06 slash cut mufflers) are the bottleneck in the stock setup. The stock AC is probably capable of flowing more air, but everything is bottled up by the stock mufflers. The bike is borderline lean in stock condition anyway. Once you add the download, you richen everything up a little bit, so installing the SEII slipons allows the stock airbox to flow maximum air and everything runs fine. At this point, the stock airbox has become the new bottleneck. Then after you swap in the SE/AC, you've removed both bottlenecks and the bike is pumping a little more air than the Stage I download was designed to handle.

It just my own thoughts and I have nothing to prove I am right. I'm no tech, but I have some experience from racing and this is what I have come up with. I keep putting off ordering a SERT because it'll take some tinkering to get it all dialed in and the weather is iffy this time of year. The bike is running okay and I ride it whenever the weather allows. The subtle miss is more of an annoyance than anything else.

 

Thanks for the insight. I'm gonna try that as soon we get a decent weather day here, and I'll give you an update.

Also, keep me posted when you get the race tuner installed!

Wally

 

JamieWG, just a quick question.

We both have an 06 Wide Glide. and both have the SE II slip ons. I am holding off on the Stage I kit and download for now. The bike runs well, but again it's new and I haven't been running it hard in cold weather.

You indicate once the AC upgrade and download are done, you sense some loss in the midrange-but its more of an annoyance than anything substantial. I gather you aren't getting any popping on deceleration, etc.

My question is whether you think this " annoyance" is acceptable for those of us who won't be pushing their bikes hard, or doing long trips regularly? I realize the SERT is the way to go, but what is the real cost-benefit? Is the HD Stage I download going to be acceptable for most of us? I guess I would be willing to accept some loss in the midrange as you say, as long as the bike is running well overall.

Just curious as to what you think.

 

I'm not getting any popping on decel, but popping on decel isn't the only symptom of a lean running engine. Lots of different things can cause popping on decel and some bikes that are properly tuned will still pop on decel. The price difference between the SERT and the download really isn't that big. The download is $150 and you'll probably be charged 1/2 hour labor for the install, so you are looking at $190-$200 minimum. You can order a SERT from Zanotti's for $357. The SERT CD contains the same Stage I download map that HD charges you $200 to install. If you are capable of doing any mechanical work at all, uploading a canned map to your ECM is not a tough job. I've read the manual for the SERT and it's very technical, but the SERT has very good data logging abilities. The manual also contains some pretty good instructions and hints for different scenarios. Someone with a decent understanding of tuning (timing, A/F mixtures, etc) should be able to use the data logs to get the bike running good. A dyno tune would be best, but it's not hard to use the data logging to spot a problem in a certain RPM range then adjust the map to correct it. The standard Stage I map is not that far off the mark, so it's an excellent starting point for minor modifications to the ECM. I think that if someone already owns a laptop computer, then the SERT is a no-brainer. Buy the SERT, upload the canned Stage I map and for an extra $157 you still have the SERT. Even if the bike runs perfect with the canned map, if you decide to do anything else to the engine (VH pipes, a cam, etc), you've got a SERT to use for tuning.

I can't say if the "annoyance" is acceptable for anyone else. I can't even say that anyone else will experience it. I'm not a mechanic and I'm not a HD tech. Some people seem to be happy with the download. Like I said, I still ride my bike everytime the weather permits. So far though, it's been cool outside. My main concern is that once the weather gets hot, is my engine going to run hot because the Stage I download is too lean? It's not really just the annoyance of loss of power in the midrange. Denotation that causes the spark knock sensors to retard the timing is not healthy for the bike. I'm almost positive that this is what I'm hearing on my bike. I can't really tell you what to do, but if I had to do it all over again, I'd forget the download and get the SERT.

 

I am learning as I go on here...great forum btw....If Ihave D/L, SE II slip ons, and SEA/C, and the bike is a bitl ean....I can put the stock AC back with the D/L and Slipons and it should richen up a bit right? Just making sure I am on track.....
Thanks