95" vs. 96"??
95" vs. 96"??
I've wondered about this before, but never seen any real discussion on it. What's the difference in performance/numbers between the 88" bored out to 95", and the stock 96"?
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,919
Likes: 23
From: Seattle, WA
Stock 96 has about 8-10 ft-lb more torque than stock 88; and HP is more or less the same.
A 95 build is rarely just a stock 88 with bigger jugs, but most basic 95 builds will eat a stock 96's lunch.
A better comparison would be 95 vice 103 ... there the 103 probably has the torque for the same reason: longer stroke.
I would be interested in some figures as well. I have a Screamin Eagle catalog from a couple of years ago (not here at home ... on the ship) that has a bunch of charts. I don't remember just holding up one (95) against the other (96) ... besides, the charts are kinda small and don't have too good of detail.
I think it'd be interesting to see them side by side (but again you probably won't find someone with a dyno chart for their stock 96 ... unless they did a before and after).
R/
Priest
A 95 build is rarely just a stock 88 with bigger jugs, but most basic 95 builds will eat a stock 96's lunch.
A better comparison would be 95 vice 103 ... there the 103 probably has the torque for the same reason: longer stroke.
I would be interested in some figures as well. I have a Screamin Eagle catalog from a couple of years ago (not here at home ... on the ship) that has a bunch of charts. I don't remember just holding up one (95) against the other (96) ... besides, the charts are kinda small and don't have too good of detail.
I think it'd be interesting to see them side by side (but again you probably won't find someone with a dyno chart for their stock 96 ... unless they did a before and after).
R/
Priest
Stock 96 has about 8-10 ft-lb more torque than stock 88; and HP is more or less the same.
A 95 build is rarely just a stock 88 with bigger jugs, but most basic 95 builds will eat a stock 96's lunch.
A better comparison would be 95 vice 103 ... there the 103 probably has the torque for the same reason: longer stroke.
I would be interested in some figures as well. I have a Screamin Eagle catalog from a couple of years ago (not here at home ... on the ship) that has a bunch of charts. I don't remember just holding up one (95) against the other (96) ... besides, the charts are kinda small and don't have too good of detail.
I think it'd be interesting to see them side by side (but again you probably won't find someone with a dyno chart for their stock 96 ... unless they did a before and after).
R/
Priest
A 95 build is rarely just a stock 88 with bigger jugs, but most basic 95 builds will eat a stock 96's lunch.
A better comparison would be 95 vice 103 ... there the 103 probably has the torque for the same reason: longer stroke.
I would be interested in some figures as well. I have a Screamin Eagle catalog from a couple of years ago (not here at home ... on the ship) that has a bunch of charts. I don't remember just holding up one (95) against the other (96) ... besides, the charts are kinda small and don't have too good of detail.
I think it'd be interesting to see them side by side (but again you probably won't find someone with a dyno chart for their stock 96 ... unless they did a before and after).
R/
Priest
Road Master
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 929
Likes: 0
From:
The type of cams, pistons, and head work all contribute greatly. I have a moderate 95" build, SE 211 cams, high compression pistons, and a mikuni carb, but no head work, and I can eat 96" bikes with stage one all day long. I haven't had mine dynoed but my numbers are probably in the low 90s. With more aggressive cams and some head work a 95" build numbers can go over 100/100.
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: Montana
I just helped my neighbor put a big bore kit in his 2004 88" FLHT . The kit also came with a cam. He also put different heads that were ported and polished as well as have larger heavy duty valves. We put the closest map on with the super tuner. We did a second gear roll on test where we were at about 2000 rpm and just gassed it. He was creeping away from me. Now his bike also weighs about 125+ lbs more than mine and he is about 15 lbs heavier. That was however with me using the stock air cleaner and stock map and stock pipes with the baffles cut out about 70% of the way. I just changed my air cleaner and downloaded a close map to my bike with the super tuner and then we tried it again. This time I was creeping away from him.
My feeling is with what work he has done if the motors were on the same weight bike and tuned on the dyno he would walk away at a pretty good rate. Next winter I plan on doing some heads and cams on mine. We will both likely have them dyno'd to see what the numbers are but I would think his should be somewhere in 90's for torque and maybe high 80's to low 90's for horsepower.
Unfortunately I can't say what it would be like if he only did the big bore kit without the cams and headwork, But I would think they would be close in numbers.
My feeling is with what work he has done if the motors were on the same weight bike and tuned on the dyno he would walk away at a pretty good rate. Next winter I plan on doing some heads and cams on mine. We will both likely have them dyno'd to see what the numbers are but I would think his should be somewhere in 90's for torque and maybe high 80's to low 90's for horsepower.
Unfortunately I can't say what it would be like if he only did the big bore kit without the cams and headwork, But I would think they would be close in numbers.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,562
Likes: 11
From: Palm Harbor fl.
actually if you look at dyno results, a stage 1 96" is really about equal to a stage 1 88". My 88" has better dyno results than many 96" results. I had 77hp and 88 ft-lbs of torque which is a couple hp and ft-lbs more than a lot of 96" motors I have seen posted.
A built 95" motor can get into the 100/100 club if done right.
A built 95" motor can get into the 100/100 club if done right.
Road Master
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,021
Likes: 2
Bore vs Stroke.
A 95 kit gets the extra cubes from a bigger bore. The 96 engines have the same bore as an 88 with a longer stroke. If everything else was equal, heads, cams, compression etc. Generally bigger bore shorter stroke will win out because the engine can wind up faster, and it unshrouds the valves allowing the engine to breath better.
A 95 kit gets the extra cubes from a bigger bore. The 96 engines have the same bore as an 88 with a longer stroke. If everything else was equal, heads, cams, compression etc. Generally bigger bore shorter stroke will win out because the engine can wind up faster, and it unshrouds the valves allowing the engine to breath better.
Trending Topics
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,530
Likes: 1
From: Upstate, SC
My impression of what Harley was trying to accomplish with the TC96 is this: low end torque. That's why the stroked it rather than bored it to get the displacement up 8 inches over the TC88. Then they used relatively mild cams and kept the throttle body the same as on the TC88. All this equates to low end torque vs all out horsepower.
In a 95" build based on boring out an 88, with hotter cams, etc., you're looking at horsepower over low end torque, IMO.
In a 95" build based on boring out an 88, with hotter cams, etc., you're looking at horsepower over low end torque, IMO.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,440
Likes: 148
From: Northwest
Yup, longer stroke = more torque, if everything else is equal.
However with all the posts about the crank scissoring on these 96" with a little warm over, the first I would do on a engine build, is have the bottom end done: I think that amounted to- welding the crank and doing the timken bearing conversion - before I did anything to the top end.
There may have been more bottom end work necessary...... those in the know, can you chime in?
However with all the posts about the crank scissoring on these 96" with a little warm over, the first I would do on a engine build, is have the bottom end done: I think that amounted to- welding the crank and doing the timken bearing conversion - before I did anything to the top end.
There may have been more bottom end work necessary...... those in the know, can you chime in?
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,352
Likes: 4
From: Augusta, GA
The crank can scissor on any Twin Cam engine. It is more likely to happen when the top end gets all the Hp & Tq upgrades but not likely until you cross a certain threshold.
Going into the bottom end to weld the crank and replace the bearing is a major money investment. It is insurance from catastrophic failure of the bottom end and wasting all the money you spend on the top end because if it ever does scissor it will trash the entire engine or at least the cam chest, crank, possibly the cases, top end....well you get the idea.
But......talking to some people that make their living building these bikes you will generally find their recommendations to be based on their personal experience. The two local I am cunsulting about my 95" build have said not to worry about taking the bottom end apart since my build will stay in the 10.1 - 10.5 compression range with cams in the .550" lift range. They both agree that building for low and mid-range torque is going to be safe but that building for horsepower and torque would be foolish to not weld the crank and replace the bearing.
...I'm just relaying the input I have from people I trust as I have been able to interpret it, everyone has to go with what they are comfortable with.
I do know that if I go into the bottom end I will not weld the 4" crank but replace it with a stroker crank that is welded.
Going into the bottom end to weld the crank and replace the bearing is a major money investment. It is insurance from catastrophic failure of the bottom end and wasting all the money you spend on the top end because if it ever does scissor it will trash the entire engine or at least the cam chest, crank, possibly the cases, top end....well you get the idea.
But......talking to some people that make their living building these bikes you will generally find their recommendations to be based on their personal experience. The two local I am cunsulting about my 95" build have said not to worry about taking the bottom end apart since my build will stay in the 10.1 - 10.5 compression range with cams in the .550" lift range. They both agree that building for low and mid-range torque is going to be safe but that building for horsepower and torque would be foolish to not weld the crank and replace the bearing.
...I'm just relaying the input I have from people I trust as I have been able to interpret it, everyone has to go with what they are comfortable with.
I do know that if I go into the bottom end I will not weld the 4" crank but replace it with a stroker crank that is welded.