Oil - Opinions from Dyna Riders
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 662
Likes: 0
From: SE Michigan
I'm not sure any particular brand is better than any other.
I do know that synthetic has advantages over convential oils.
So for the money it will always be synthetic and it will always be done on time.
Don't over think it!
I do know that synthetic has advantages over convential oils.
So for the money it will always be synthetic and it will always be done on time.
Don't over think it!
Cruiser
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 176
Likes: 2
From: redneck riveria
I use m1 15-50 in engine $26 for 5 qts @ wally world and shell rotella -t in other holes.15- 50 m1 is same at v twin but has some more stuff you want that v twin does because v twin is made for all v twins and metric bikes have engine trany and clutch using same oil ,harley does not.Rotella t whe used in trans/clutch in 6000 hp tug boats lot more stress than bike clutch and tranny
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 2
From: Deltona, FL
Mobil 1 V-Twin 20w50 for engine and primary, Mobil 1 75/90 gear oil for the tranny and HD filter.
You can pick up Mobil 1 V-Twin from Advance Auto or Autozone, some Wal-Marts and it's usually at least $2 cheaper than Harley Syn3 per quart. Works better too.
Of course, I use Harley Fossil until the 5000 mile oil change, then make the switch to synthetic. I believe a proper break-in takes longer than 1000 miles, but I'm weird that way.
You can pick up Mobil 1 V-Twin from Advance Auto or Autozone, some Wal-Marts and it's usually at least $2 cheaper than Harley Syn3 per quart. Works better too.
Of course, I use Harley Fossil until the 5000 mile oil change, then make the switch to synthetic. I believe a proper break-in takes longer than 1000 miles, but I'm weird that way.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,530
Likes: 1
From: Upstate, SC
I use m1 15-50 in engine $26 for 5 qts @ wally world and shell rotella -t in other holes.15- 50 m1 is same at v twin but has some more stuff you want that v twin does because v twin is made for all v twins and metric bikes have engine trany and clutch using same oil ,harley does not.Rotella t whe used in trans/clutch in 6000 hp tug boats lot more stress than bike clutch and tranny
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
From: Gold Coast Australia
No problems running the heavy duty shockproof in the primary? I swapped the original HD primary oil for the Redline MTL. Seems like I can hear what's going on in there, where i couldn't before. I also have the heavy duty shockproof in the gearbox, and the shifting is a lot smoother. Have thought about using the shockproof in the primary, but not sure.
Colin.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,530
Likes: 1
From: Upstate, SC
That is not a good idea at all. 
The dealer changed out my primary and transmission oil at the 1000 mile service last week. I told them to put in Formula+, but it doesn't shift or sound as smooth as it did, and the clutch is more grabby. They are real big on "up selling" to Syn3 in all three holes at the first service, so I'm wondering if they didn't stick that in there?
I may go get me a derby gasket tomorrow and change it myself to be sure.
The dealer changed out my primary and transmission oil at the 1000 mile service last week. I told them to put in Formula+, but it doesn't shift or sound as smooth as it did, and the clutch is more grabby. They are real big on "up selling" to Syn3 in all three holes at the first service, so I'm wondering if they didn't stick that in there?
I may go get me a derby gasket tomorrow and change it myself to be sure.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,750
Likes: 261
From: back home in Michigan
Lots of opinions......funny though I just read an interesting article about just this subject.
A few highlights to consider.
"Here are some representative temps at a steady speed of 65 in 90 degree still air-
cyl head-275
cyl base-230
cam cvr-210
primary-190
eng oil feed-190
At a steady 75 mph these temps will all be about 10* higher. At 95, results might vary, but the point is the higher velocities (especially in engines in a state of tune that allows them) result in higher temps. Logical enough when youy think about it for a minute, but theres the 'other' extreme too. The one you might not have thought of so much that makes the bell curve so interesting.
At the end of east come to a stop, then watch the cyl head temp shoot up to around 325 (or more) as the motor idles. Quite often it will continue to rise, even to temps you will never see when riding. An extended period of idling (10 minutes) could easily produce a measured 375* in the heads, and 400* at the spark plug-or more!"
Theres alot said about the kind of oil thats best for these extreme temps, temps where the oils can 'flash' (begin to vaporize [burn]). So flash point is critical imho. Flash points of syn oil is higher, and there are partial synthetics and pure sythetics with the pure syns have the highest flashpoint. The article says there are only two things keeping your motor cool, air and the oil.
Anyway, getting tired of typing....lol, so here are the pure syns listed-
Delvac-1
AMSOil
Redline
Mobil One
Motul 5100
(possibly) Syn3-HD is stingy giving out info about their oil. Hmmm, wonder why?
Here are some oils and their listed flashpoints-
AMSOil Synthetic Motorcycle 20w-50 : 449*
Havoline Formula 3 : 465*
Pennzoil GT Performance : 460*
Castrol GPS (20W-50) : 414*
Mobil 1 V-Twin (20w-50) : 518*
Redline Motorcycle oil (20w-60) : 490*
Bardahl American Classic (20w-50) : 500*
Most conventional major brand 20w-50 oils have a flashpoint between 425*-440*. Some breakdown and oxidation occurs at lower temps so a few manufacturers also quote a max. continuous service temp of, say, 275*-325*, like Syn3's rating of 300*."
I got this from the article-"Motohead Memo" by Kip Woodring in the March issue of Thunderpress mag.
A few highlights to consider.
"Here are some representative temps at a steady speed of 65 in 90 degree still air-
cyl head-275
cyl base-230
cam cvr-210
primary-190
eng oil feed-190
At a steady 75 mph these temps will all be about 10* higher. At 95, results might vary, but the point is the higher velocities (especially in engines in a state of tune that allows them) result in higher temps. Logical enough when youy think about it for a minute, but theres the 'other' extreme too. The one you might not have thought of so much that makes the bell curve so interesting.
At the end of east come to a stop, then watch the cyl head temp shoot up to around 325 (or more) as the motor idles. Quite often it will continue to rise, even to temps you will never see when riding. An extended period of idling (10 minutes) could easily produce a measured 375* in the heads, and 400* at the spark plug-or more!"
Theres alot said about the kind of oil thats best for these extreme temps, temps where the oils can 'flash' (begin to vaporize [burn]). So flash point is critical imho. Flash points of syn oil is higher, and there are partial synthetics and pure sythetics with the pure syns have the highest flashpoint. The article says there are only two things keeping your motor cool, air and the oil.
Anyway, getting tired of typing....lol, so here are the pure syns listed-
Delvac-1
AMSOil
Redline
Mobil One
Motul 5100
(possibly) Syn3-HD is stingy giving out info about their oil. Hmmm, wonder why?
Here are some oils and their listed flashpoints-
AMSOil Synthetic Motorcycle 20w-50 : 449*
Havoline Formula 3 : 465*
Pennzoil GT Performance : 460*
Castrol GPS (20W-50) : 414*
Mobil 1 V-Twin (20w-50) : 518*
Redline Motorcycle oil (20w-60) : 490*
Bardahl American Classic (20w-50) : 500*
Most conventional major brand 20w-50 oils have a flashpoint between 425*-440*. Some breakdown and oxidation occurs at lower temps so a few manufacturers also quote a max. continuous service temp of, say, 275*-325*, like Syn3's rating of 300*."
I got this from the article-"Motohead Memo" by Kip Woodring in the March issue of Thunderpress mag.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,530
Likes: 1
From: Upstate, SC
According to the MSDS for Syn3, it's basically a synthetic blend of 50-70% PAO and the rest a mix of Group III and Bright Stock (Group I).
----------------------------------------------
1-Decene Homopolymer, hydrogenated (PAO)
68037-01-4
50% - 70%
Proprietary Ingredients (Additives)
Proprietary Mixture
1% - 10%
Polyisobutylene (VI improver)
9003-27-4
1% - 10%
Distillates, Petroleum, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic (Group III)
64742-54-7
0% - 20%
Distillates, Petroleum, Solvent-Refined Heavy Paraffinic (Group I)
64741-88-4
0% - 20%
Zinc Alkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP)
68649-42-3
0% - 2%
----------------------------------------------
1-Decene Homopolymer, hydrogenated (PAO)
68037-01-4
50% - 70%
Proprietary Ingredients (Additives)
Proprietary Mixture
1% - 10%
Polyisobutylene (VI improver)
9003-27-4
1% - 10%
Distillates, Petroleum, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic (Group III)
64742-54-7
0% - 20%
Distillates, Petroleum, Solvent-Refined Heavy Paraffinic (Group I)
64741-88-4
0% - 20%
Zinc Alkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP)
68649-42-3
0% - 2%
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Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,750
Likes: 261
From: back home in Michigan
This is what the article says about HD oils-
"Let's take a minute to get something on the radar (and off my chest) right here and now! The best-known 20w-50 motor oils to Harley riders are obviously HD360 and Syn3. The Moco has chosen not to use conventional ratings (API, JASCO, etc.) on their oils. This can be looked upon as both the good news and the bad news about the stuff.
The good news is HD uses their own system of "tested certification" to come up with their won rating-which is expressed in hours of use, hence the "360" moniker on their regula dead-dino oil. Seems to me this makes sense insofar as it differentiates their oil from other mc oils, not to mention car oils. And, believe me when I say, now more than ever, there are huge differences.
The bad news, on the other hand, is that using this an an excuse, the factory offers virtually no further info about the detailed specs and standards of their lubricants and doesn't even rate their two "recommended" lubricants the same way, even though they may meet the same standards in 'certified testing'. (One could rightfully ask, tested by whom, and certified to do what?) Harley simply wasn't talking-inasmuch as they are brainwashing. They want it taken on faith that their product is superior for their machines-simply because they tested theirs and didn't test anyone elses! Fact is, it may well be. The issue I have with that is they don't make their oil and they aren't forthcoming about its properties and protections. So, it might not be!"
You have to remember this all is conjecture-opinion-but its similar to the way tire manufacturers rate their tires, which they do themselves. You know, the traction and wear ratings, the letters on the sides of the tires? Each manufacturer rates their own tires and puts those numbers/letters on the sides of the tires accordingly. See the potential problem with this all?
Personally I look at these temps and want the best pure syn oil with the highest flashpoint I can get while still maintaining the lubricant integrity. The better the lubrication, the faster the oil can carry the heat away....so I'm probably going to go with Mobil 1 V Twin. I have had great luck with Mobil 1 motor oil in my cars. And how much more can it cost compared to Syn3? Maybe even less? LOL
"Let's take a minute to get something on the radar (and off my chest) right here and now! The best-known 20w-50 motor oils to Harley riders are obviously HD360 and Syn3. The Moco has chosen not to use conventional ratings (API, JASCO, etc.) on their oils. This can be looked upon as both the good news and the bad news about the stuff.
The good news is HD uses their own system of "tested certification" to come up with their won rating-which is expressed in hours of use, hence the "360" moniker on their regula dead-dino oil. Seems to me this makes sense insofar as it differentiates their oil from other mc oils, not to mention car oils. And, believe me when I say, now more than ever, there are huge differences.
The bad news, on the other hand, is that using this an an excuse, the factory offers virtually no further info about the detailed specs and standards of their lubricants and doesn't even rate their two "recommended" lubricants the same way, even though they may meet the same standards in 'certified testing'. (One could rightfully ask, tested by whom, and certified to do what?) Harley simply wasn't talking-inasmuch as they are brainwashing. They want it taken on faith that their product is superior for their machines-simply because they tested theirs and didn't test anyone elses! Fact is, it may well be. The issue I have with that is they don't make their oil and they aren't forthcoming about its properties and protections. So, it might not be!"
You have to remember this all is conjecture-opinion-but its similar to the way tire manufacturers rate their tires, which they do themselves. You know, the traction and wear ratings, the letters on the sides of the tires? Each manufacturer rates their own tires and puts those numbers/letters on the sides of the tires accordingly. See the potential problem with this all?
Personally I look at these temps and want the best pure syn oil with the highest flashpoint I can get while still maintaining the lubricant integrity. The better the lubrication, the faster the oil can carry the heat away....so I'm probably going to go with Mobil 1 V Twin. I have had great luck with Mobil 1 motor oil in my cars. And how much more can it cost compared to Syn3? Maybe even less? LOL