Brake Fluid type confusion - help needed please
Thread Starter
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3rd Gear
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Devon
Yes thanks I have re-read your post and very informative.
My confusion came when you said if cost is an issue to flush all out and go with DOT4. Do correct me if I've got this wrong, but I thought the system couldn't use DOT 4 and it had to be 5 since all others were saying go for 5 as it's designed only for that type.
I think the problem has come when someone told my friend he must not use 5.1 yet he was sold 5.1 by a store who said it was the same thing as 5 (and it isn't). This was clearly wrong information.
I'll tell him to put DOT 5 in and if he can't afford it, then he can safely use DOT 4 if he is sure he's flushed the whole system properly.
Thanks again for your help.
My confusion came when you said if cost is an issue to flush all out and go with DOT4. Do correct me if I've got this wrong, but I thought the system couldn't use DOT 4 and it had to be 5 since all others were saying go for 5 as it's designed only for that type.
I think the problem has come when someone told my friend he must not use 5.1 yet he was sold 5.1 by a store who said it was the same thing as 5 (and it isn't). This was clearly wrong information.
I'll tell him to put DOT 5 in and if he can't afford it, then he can safely use DOT 4 if he is sure he's flushed the whole system properly.
Thanks again for your help.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 6,642
Likes: 48
From: Ogden, UT
The key is it has to be VERY clean. I would make sure to check it the next day after filling it with fluid, make sure there are no lumps. While I have not seen it, what I understand is if you mix, the fluid will lump, or coagulate and cease to function.
At this point any way you go is going to require some thorough cleaning first.
Good luck.
At this point any way you go is going to require some thorough cleaning first.
Good luck.
Thread Starter
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3rd Gear
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Devon
That's great thanks a lot. The info about the mixing and lumping is extremely useful.
I've not yet got hold of my friend so I think he's out somewhere but I'll tell him all this stuff over the weekend.
I know he was going to clean the system a couple of nights ago with Meths. I'm not sure what you call Methylated spirit in the USA. I think you have another word for it but it's the purple stuff I think that fire-eaters use. It cleans well and evaporates off fast leaving no residue. I don't like the idea of putting meths in contact with rubberized seals in hydraulic systems but he can probably get away with it.
Anyhow you've given me plenty of info to work with so I'm much obliged to you.
Good riding.
--
Plado
I've not yet got hold of my friend so I think he's out somewhere but I'll tell him all this stuff over the weekend.
I know he was going to clean the system a couple of nights ago with Meths. I'm not sure what you call Methylated spirit in the USA. I think you have another word for it but it's the purple stuff I think that fire-eaters use. It cleans well and evaporates off fast leaving no residue. I don't like the idea of putting meths in contact with rubberized seals in hydraulic systems but he can probably get away with it.
Anyhow you've given me plenty of info to work with so I'm much obliged to you.
Good riding.
--
Plado
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,476
Likes: 23
From: Summit, Mississippi
I would not dare try to argue against one vs. the other. If you like the 5....then go for it. Just like oils and other fluids, folks are passionate about what they believe in and I respect that.
I can't say that I have never spilled any DOT 4 on any of my bikes, but the paint did not just "disappear" before I wiped it off. I would wipe 5 off just as fast as I would 3 or 4 too. It's not going to melt through the fenders before you can clean it up and yes....I did get a rear brake line cut in Canada when I ran over some debris in the highway...never did figure out what it was that I hit. I just heard something go "ping"....later to discover I had a very small cut in the line that eventually leaked down. Must have been a piece of metal or something...it can happen.
Anyway...I say...to each his own guys. Just as the folks above say....don't mix the silicone and non-silicone based fluids.
I can't say that I have never spilled any DOT 4 on any of my bikes, but the paint did not just "disappear" before I wiped it off. I would wipe 5 off just as fast as I would 3 or 4 too. It's not going to melt through the fenders before you can clean it up and yes....I did get a rear brake line cut in Canada when I ran over some debris in the highway...never did figure out what it was that I hit. I just heard something go "ping"....later to discover I had a very small cut in the line that eventually leaked down. Must have been a piece of metal or something...it can happen.
Anyway...I say...to each his own guys. Just as the folks above say....don't mix the silicone and non-silicone based fluids.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,899
Likes: 8
From: Aurora, IL
I just went through this a few weeks ago when Joe powder coated my calipers and master cylinder. Everything was clean and dry. Brake lines were cleaned out with brake clean, blown out with air. Sat for 2 weeks apart. Everything was clean and dry. I put in Dot 4 and couldnt get a firm brake. I blead 2 bottles of brake fluid through my front brake and the lever would still go to the grip. Pulled everything apart and found a couple O-rings swelled up and some of the rubber parts looked bigger.
I replaced everything in the system. Brake lines, caliper rebuild kits, master cylinder rebuild kits. Cleaned everything out dried out everything and replaced everything and anything rubber in the system. Brakes are perfect now.....$250 later!!!
Last edited by redrubicon2004; May 14, 2010 at 06:20 PM.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 6,642
Likes: 48
From: Ogden, UT
If you don't thoroughly clean, yes you will have issues. Here is what i got from a vendor.
Since I don't do 'conversions', I wanted to talk to some of our brake vendors (TX & CA) and get my facts straight. Here's the procedure recommended:
- Use a turkey baster to suck all the old fluid out of the master cylinder reservoir. Fill the reservoir with rubbing alcohol. Get about 5 bottles; yer gonna need 'em. 8-P
- Bleed the system, just like you would normally. Keep bleeding each wheel cylinder/caliper until only rubbing alcohol comes out. When all you see is only clean, clear rubbing alcohol, you're thru with the flushing.
- Take all the brake lines loose at both ends. Use filtered, dry compressed air to blow out all alcohol. The lines must be free of all traces of alcohol.
- Remove the master cylinder and wheel cylinders/calipers. Disassemble each component, clean thoroughly with either hot soapy water/hot water rinse or with a commercial non-filming brake cleaner. Dry each part and reassemble using DOT5 brake fluid as lubricant.
- Components such as the combination valve will have alcohol in them from the flushing procedure. Blowing them out will be pretty touchy. Too much air and you 'blow out' the valve, too little and you don't get rid of the alcohol.
- Re-install all the parts, fill the reservoir with DOT5 fluid, and bleed as normal.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 6,642
Likes: 48
From: Ogden, UT
Why do you think I researched it? Because I needed to help a friend and his is working fine, so no, not because of what I was told, but because of what I have seen.
Like I said, just because you did it incorrectly does not mean it does not work.
Like I said, just because you did it incorrectly does not mean it does not work.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,899
Likes: 8
From: Aurora, IL
What ever, you win the pissing contest with your internet research. FYI Powder coating parts requires complete disassembly, stripping, blasting and baking. Guess I should have cleaned those parts better huh?
To the OP do not change your fluid type. Its not worth the hassle.
To the OP do not change your fluid type. Its not worth the hassle.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,899
Likes: 8
From: Aurora, IL
The key is it has to be VERY clean. I would make sure to check it the next day after filling it with fluid, make sure there are no lumps. While I have not seen it, what I understand is if you mix, the fluid will lump, or coagulate and cease to function.
At this point any way you go is going to require some thorough cleaning first.
Good luck.
At this point any way you go is going to require some thorough cleaning first.
Good luck.