Bike having problems starting, finally gave in
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,919
Likes: 23
From: Seattle, WA
The crank position sensor (CKP) is about $50-$60 ... at least when I had to replace mine about 5 years ago I seem to recall it being $54 ...
I kind of doubt the CKP is causing your problem ... is it possible, I suppose ... you might remove it and inspect it ... maybe put a micrometer to it to test it ... (don't know what the readings are supposed to be, though) ...
I tend to think that it might have either something to do with your ECM / PC (tuner) ... or possibly something to do with ignition system (coil, plug wires) ...
I think you're being a little sensitive to the suggestion to unplug the Power Commander and try that ... if it is bad (or a bad connection, etc) ... you should be able to tell by removing it temporarily ...
I don't think it has anything to do with your starter ... I presume you would have been able to tell if your starter was not engaging (starter clutch) or if it was grinding enough to mess up the pinion gear or (clutch basket) ring gear teeth ...
Since the fuel pressure was tested I don't think that is an issue (if you had a hole in the in-tank fuel line, the symptom would be cutting out when your fuel level was low) ...
That leads me to believe that the program that feeds fuel is causing the problem ... which points me toward your PC (or possibly your ECM) ...
Also, if your plug wires are shot (no longer provide proper resistance) I am thinking it could cause an issue ... or if the coil were not providing the proper current/voltage to the plugs ... could cause hard starting ...
I am leaning towards PC/ECM because of your poor fuel economy ...
Good luck and be sure to post follow up when you get to the bottom of it ...
R/
'Chop
I kind of doubt the CKP is causing your problem ... is it possible, I suppose ... you might remove it and inspect it ... maybe put a micrometer to it to test it ... (don't know what the readings are supposed to be, though) ...
I tend to think that it might have either something to do with your ECM / PC (tuner) ... or possibly something to do with ignition system (coil, plug wires) ...
I think you're being a little sensitive to the suggestion to unplug the Power Commander and try that ... if it is bad (or a bad connection, etc) ... you should be able to tell by removing it temporarily ...
I don't think it has anything to do with your starter ... I presume you would have been able to tell if your starter was not engaging (starter clutch) or if it was grinding enough to mess up the pinion gear or (clutch basket) ring gear teeth ...
Since the fuel pressure was tested I don't think that is an issue (if you had a hole in the in-tank fuel line, the symptom would be cutting out when your fuel level was low) ...
That leads me to believe that the program that feeds fuel is causing the problem ... which points me toward your PC (or possibly your ECM) ...
Also, if your plug wires are shot (no longer provide proper resistance) I am thinking it could cause an issue ... or if the coil were not providing the proper current/voltage to the plugs ... could cause hard starting ...
I am leaning towards PC/ECM because of your poor fuel economy ...
Good luck and be sure to post follow up when you get to the bottom of it ...
R/
'Chop
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 5,477
Likes: 5
From: New Braunfels, Texas
I'm also guessing its the power commander, I would never have a piggy back tuner for that reason. Did you wash the bike or ride in the rain about the same time the problem started?
Thread Starter
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Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 16
From: Virginia
I would think the Harley dealer would have tested the CKP but I guess not.
It could be the power commander but I just want them to put some effort into it and tell me what the problem is. If it's the Power Commander then fine but don't just guess, damn I could do that.
I just lost a lot of confidence in them when they wanted to blame the battery because it wasn't a genuine Harley battery and then tried to send the bike out the door.
What is odd is that the bike when it starts seems to run fine.
If I get it back and they don't fix it (I am betting that's what is going to happen) then do I just unplug the Power Commander and then try to start it? Or do I need to plug anything back in it's place?
This problem has been going on for a long time, about a year I believe so it has seen a few wash jobs.
It could be the power commander but I just want them to put some effort into it and tell me what the problem is. If it's the Power Commander then fine but don't just guess, damn I could do that.
I just lost a lot of confidence in them when they wanted to blame the battery because it wasn't a genuine Harley battery and then tried to send the bike out the door.
What is odd is that the bike when it starts seems to run fine.
If I get it back and they don't fix it (I am betting that's what is going to happen) then do I just unplug the Power Commander and then try to start it? Or do I need to plug anything back in it's place?
This problem has been going on for a long time, about a year I believe so it has seen a few wash jobs.
Last edited by PigInaBlanket; Feb 12, 2013 at 04:02 PM.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,749
Likes: 16
From: sand mountain Alabama
Is it throwing any codes?
If it isn't I would also agree with the PC or ecm.
These 2 will not throw a code but the CKP will.
You get no warning most of the time when the CPK goes out. If you do get a warning it will miss like crazy or go in and out. I had no hard starts, it either started or it wouldn't.
If it isn't I would also agree with the PC or ecm.
These 2 will not throw a code but the CKP will.
You get no warning most of the time when the CPK goes out. If you do get a warning it will miss like crazy or go in and out. I had no hard starts, it either started or it wouldn't.
Last edited by dirtdobber; Feb 12, 2013 at 04:20 PM.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,416
Likes: 88
From: San Quirino, Italy
It could be the power commander but I just want them to put some effort into it and tell me what the problem is. If it's the Power Commander then fine but don't just guess, damn I could do that.
I just lost a lot of confidence in them when they wanted to blame the battery because it wasn't a genuine Harley battery and then tried to send it out the door.
If I get it back and they don't fix it (I am betting that's what is going to happen) then do I just unplug the Power Commander and then try to start it? Or do I need to plug anything back in it's place?
I just lost a lot of confidence in them when they wanted to blame the battery because it wasn't a genuine Harley battery and then tried to send it out the door.
If I get it back and they don't fix it (I am betting that's what is going to happen) then do I just unplug the Power Commander and then try to start it? Or do I need to plug anything back in it's place?
Thread Starter
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Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 16
From: Virginia
What was stupid is they tested the battery on their new super fancy battery tester they said they just got in and it would take 30 minutes because it does all kinds of tests. That was this past Sunday and they said it passed fine so they suggested I bring the bike in and then when I do they say the battery isn't a Harley battery so that's probably it.
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Club Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 16
From: Virginia
Already checked for codes a month back (sorry should have listed that as something I tried before) and no codes are listed.
I was thinking about reloading the map on the PC a couple weeks ago, wish I would have done that before I took it in.
I was thinking about reloading the map on the PC a couple weeks ago, wish I would have done that before I took it in.
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Tourer
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
From: Meridian, Idaho
It is good advise to unplug the PC and try again! I have never ran across a PC that was worth bringing home anyway. My son had two different PC's and they were both problematic. Just NOT a PC advocate. I know they can cause more problems than they solve. Just my take on them anyway...good luck and keep us posted!
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,919
Likes: 23
From: Seattle, WA
That could do it ... (i.e., reloading the map) ...
I had an episode where my bike was running like crap one night after work ... I pulled over, did a reset on the ECM (ThunderMax w/ AutoTune) and started back up ... ran like a top ...
I had an episode where my bike was running like crap one night after work ... I pulled over, did a reset on the ECM (ThunderMax w/ AutoTune) and started back up ... ran like a top ...
Last edited by SURFOR Chop; Feb 12, 2013 at 05:39 PM.