Cam tensioners - I think they don't need replacing yet
#21
05-17-2016, 01:02 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
The potential problem can be eliminated in a couple of hours for less than $100? Easy fix, particularly if one is in the cam chest anyway as the OP is; half way there. Or maybe some prefer to "live on the edge" and take their chances when a $5000 repair could be the result of the gamble. Just doesn't make sense to me.....
I'm going to switch to the hydraulic kit probably around 40,000 miles. It comes with a high output oil pump. I'll have the local wrench do it for about $550 or maybe a little more with bearings.
#22
05-17-2016, 01:19 PM
No need to remove the cams to change the secondary (rear tensioner) there's a tool for that.
As I mentioned before, the hydraulic conversion kit retains the stock link chain on the back side of the cam plate that causes more wear than a roller chain (which is provided for the front). You'd still have to check the inner shoe and that can't be done with cam plate in the motor.
As I mentioned before, the hydraulic conversion kit retains the stock link chain on the back side of the cam plate that causes more wear than a roller chain (which is provided for the front). You'd still have to check the inner shoe and that can't be done with cam plate in the motor.
#23
05-17-2016, 01:41 PM
i cant wait to have a $5000 repair. LMAO that means i will have a bad *** motor. but on the serious note, yes replace them with at least cryo. I am even going to take it one step further and polish the outside of my chain. Make it look like a mirror. I also am a machinist and we have a polishing department, the tem boys know how to polish. Im thinking if your chain is smooth as a mirror, that would help also. One more thing, To run gear drive, dont you need like very little runout on your crank? Like max .003? That i dont know and would like to, just what i heard
#24
05-17-2016, 02:06 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
No need to remove the cams to change the secondary (rear tensioner) there's a tool for that.
As I mentioned before, the hydraulic conversion kit retains the stock link chain on the back side of the cam plate that causes more wear than a roller chain (which is provided for the front). You'd still have to check the inner shoe and that can't be done with cam plate in the motor.
As I mentioned before, the hydraulic conversion kit retains the stock link chain on the back side of the cam plate that causes more wear than a roller chain (which is provided for the front). You'd still have to check the inner shoe and that can't be done with cam plate in the motor.
#27
05-17-2016, 03:30 PM
Hmmm, easy fix.....for you maybe. I helped a friend one time and it wasn't an easy fix. Especially the rear tensioner. You need a special tool or a press to remove the cam. You are right about costing less than $100 for parts.
I'm going to switch to the hydraulic kit probably around 40,000 miles. It comes with a high output oil pump. I'll have the local wrench do it for about $550 or maybe a little more with bearings.
I'm going to switch to the hydraulic kit probably around 40,000 miles. It comes with a high output oil pump. I'll have the local wrench do it for about $550 or maybe a little more with bearings.
Hmmm, easy fix.....for you maybe. I helped a friend one time and it wasn't an easy fix. Especially the rear tensioner. You need a special tool or a press to remove the cam. You are right about costing less than $100 for parts. I'm going to switch to the hydraulic kit probably around 40,000 miles. It comes with a high output oil pump. I'll have the local wrench do it for about $550 or maybe a little more with bearings.
Back in the day before the advent of CYCO tensioners and hydraulic tensioners, there were only two solutions to address the potential of tensioner failure. Gear drive cams providing crank runout was not greater than .003", or replace the OEM tensioners with new OEM tensioners but polish both chains. Gears was and is still the only permanent fix for potential tensioner failure and replacing old tensioners with new and polishing the chains usually proved to extend the life of the tensioners but they still needed checking about ever 10K miles.
There were/are what I like to all "caveman" work arounds for the "special" tools recommended for this work. The cams can be driven out of the outer bearings and the outer bearings can be driven out of the cam plate; the fit is not that tight. A little heat from a heat gun will facilitate the process. Mark the chains so they can be installed to rotate in the same direction as they were when they came off. Polish the chains before reinstalling. Put the cams in the freezer over night; heat up the bearings in the oven and they drop right on the cams. I used to keep the proper size deep well socket handy just in case the bearings needed a final bump to bottom out. Next step is to put the cam/bearing assembly in the freezer over night and heat up the cam plate in the oven; the cam/bearing assembly drops right in. Just requires oven mitts and paying close attention to the painted timing marks on the back side of the cam sprockets to insure they are installed properly aligned. If those dots are off, gotta start all over.
This is the forgotten "oven/freezer" method the DIY guys used back in the day.Inner cam bearings can be removed with a blind hole puller rented from Autozone or Advanced Auto. Freeze the new inner cam bearings over night and use an old cam or a fabricated driver to install the new cam bearings using a liberal application of assembly lube.
So, as you can see, not that difficult. All one needs is the ability to read, the HD service manual for the bike, patience and a decent set of hand tools including ft.lb and in.lb torque wrenches. If the goal is to replace tensioners only, with cams in place, a special tool will be required. However, if replacing cams, a 15/16" socket with a notch of the proper size cut in the socket wall, the tensioner can be "unloaded", removed and replaced.
Has the tech told you he can supply the hardware and install for $550 or is that just the labor? Can't see how he can supply the parts and install for that price. Anyway, if it were me (I know, it's not) but for this conversation, if it were me. I would not spend the money for the SE Hybrid kit for three reasons:
1. Too easy a project to pay someone to do it.
2. The $$ saved are enough to purchase a set of S&S 509 cams and a set of CompCams VThunder 850-1 lifters, or not.
3. The reason Nomadmax cited; still stuck with the Morse inner chain.
Keep the OEM cam plate, replace the tensioners with the CYCO tensioners (the CYCO tool is required) and call it good. You will need a the tool Nomadmax makes mentions to R/R tensioner shoes with cams on place. Or you can use the caveman methods mentioned above to remove cams and R/R tensioners. You could buy the tool in Nomadmax's post, DIY the project and come out way ahead. Install the Baisley pressure relief valve spring and let her rip.............
#28
05-17-2016, 03:48 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
It really is not a difficult project; a little history for you.
Back in the day before the advent of CYCO tensioners and hydraulic tensioners, there were only two solutions to address the potential of tensioner failure. Gear drive cams providing crank runout was not greater than .003", or replace the OEM tensioners with new OEM tensioners but polish both chains. Gears was and is still the only permanent fix for potential tensioner failure and replacing old tensioners with new and polishing the chains usually proved to extend the life of the tensioners but they still needed checking about ever 10K miles.
There were/are what I like to all "caveman" work arounds for the "special" tools recommended for this work. The cams can be driven out of the outer bearings and the outer bearings can be driven out of the cam plate; the fit is not that tight. A little heat from a heat gun will facilitate the process. Mark the chains so they can be installed to rotate in the same direction as they were when they came off. Polish the chains before reinstalling. Put the cams in the freezer over night; heat up the bearings in the oven and they drop right on the cams. I used to keep the proper size deep well socket handy just in case the bearings needed a final bump to bottom out. Next step is to put the cam/bearing assembly in the freezer over night and heat up the cam plate in the oven; the cam/bearing assembly drops right in. Just requires oven mitts and paying close attention to the painted timing marks on the back side of the cam sprockets to insure they are installed properly aligned. If those dots are off, gotta start all over. This is the forgotten "oven/freezer" method the DIY guys used back in the day.
Inner cam bearings can be removed with a blind hole puller rented from Autozone or Advanced Auto. Freeze the new inner cam bearings over night and use an old cam or a fabricated driver to install the new cam bearings using a liberal application of assembly lube.
So, as you can see, not that difficult. All one needs is the ability to read, the HD service manual for the bike, patience and a decent set of hand tools including ft.lb and in.lb torque wrenches. If the goal is to replace tensioners only, with cams in place, a special tool will be required. However, if replacing cams, a 15/16" socket with a notch of the proper size cut in the socket wall, the tensioner can be "unloaded", removed and replaced.
Has the tech told you he can supply the hardware and install for $550 or is that just the labor? Can't see how he can supply the parts and install for that price. Anyway, if it were me (I know, it's not) but for this conversation, if it were me. I would not spend the money for the SE Hybrid kit for three reasons:
1. Too easy a project to pay someone to do it.
2. The $$ saved are enough to purchase a set of S&S 509 cams and a set of CompCams VThunder 850-1 lifters, or not.
3. The reason Nomadmax cited; still stuck with the Morse inner chain.
Keep the OEM cam plate, replace the tensioners with the CYCO tensioners (the CYCO tool is required) and call it good. You will need a the tool Nomadmax makes mentions to R/R tensioner shoes with cams on place. Or you can use the caveman methods mentioned above to remove cams and R/R tensioners. You could buy the tool in Nomadmax's post, DIY the project and come out way ahead. Install the Baisley pressure relief valve spring and let her rip.............
Back in the day before the advent of CYCO tensioners and hydraulic tensioners, there were only two solutions to address the potential of tensioner failure. Gear drive cams providing crank runout was not greater than .003", or replace the OEM tensioners with new OEM tensioners but polish both chains. Gears was and is still the only permanent fix for potential tensioner failure and replacing old tensioners with new and polishing the chains usually proved to extend the life of the tensioners but they still needed checking about ever 10K miles.
There were/are what I like to all "caveman" work arounds for the "special" tools recommended for this work. The cams can be driven out of the outer bearings and the outer bearings can be driven out of the cam plate; the fit is not that tight. A little heat from a heat gun will facilitate the process. Mark the chains so they can be installed to rotate in the same direction as they were when they came off. Polish the chains before reinstalling. Put the cams in the freezer over night; heat up the bearings in the oven and they drop right on the cams. I used to keep the proper size deep well socket handy just in case the bearings needed a final bump to bottom out. Next step is to put the cam/bearing assembly in the freezer over night and heat up the cam plate in the oven; the cam/bearing assembly drops right in. Just requires oven mitts and paying close attention to the painted timing marks on the back side of the cam sprockets to insure they are installed properly aligned. If those dots are off, gotta start all over.
This is the forgotten "oven/freezer" method the DIY guys used back in the day.Inner cam bearings can be removed with a blind hole puller rented from Autozone or Advanced Auto. Freeze the new inner cam bearings over night and use an old cam or a fabricated driver to install the new cam bearings using a liberal application of assembly lube.
So, as you can see, not that difficult. All one needs is the ability to read, the HD service manual for the bike, patience and a decent set of hand tools including ft.lb and in.lb torque wrenches. If the goal is to replace tensioners only, with cams in place, a special tool will be required. However, if replacing cams, a 15/16" socket with a notch of the proper size cut in the socket wall, the tensioner can be "unloaded", removed and replaced.
Has the tech told you he can supply the hardware and install for $550 or is that just the labor? Can't see how he can supply the parts and install for that price. Anyway, if it were me (I know, it's not) but for this conversation, if it were me. I would not spend the money for the SE Hybrid kit for three reasons:
1. Too easy a project to pay someone to do it.
2. The $$ saved are enough to purchase a set of S&S 509 cams and a set of CompCams VThunder 850-1 lifters, or not.
3. The reason Nomadmax cited; still stuck with the Morse inner chain.
Keep the OEM cam plate, replace the tensioners with the CYCO tensioners (the CYCO tool is required) and call it good. You will need a the tool Nomadmax makes mentions to R/R tensioner shoes with cams on place. Or you can use the caveman methods mentioned above to remove cams and R/R tensioners. You could buy the tool in Nomadmax's post, DIY the project and come out way ahead. Install the Baisley pressure relief valve spring and let her rip.............
#29
05-17-2016, 04:29 PM
