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Plans for down the road

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Old May 30, 2016 | 09:13 AM
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Default Plans for down the road

So I have my pipes intake and tuner on arrival, I got to browsing around online just for ***** and giggles, and noticed there obviously is a lot that can be done to these 103s to make great power and to have longevity with said power.

Beings a ford certified diesel tech I always have suggested to the performance or abusive crowd that head studs coolant filters EGR delete or bullet proof diesels EGR cooler was an absolute must for 6.0s and 6.4s, and if they had a dreaded 6.4 to remove the trash can of doom, that Destroys Pickups Fast (DPF) so cutting corners isn't an option just to have a quick bike that lasts a weekend.

Haven't read on the forums of the dreaded failures that came with the 88 twin cams happening to the later 96 and 103 but I have seen that catastrophic failure occur in Ford 5.4s and V10s from cheapos that don't change their oil or do and use 10 cent filters (mile guard) from jiffy lube. If the oil galleries that supplied oil to the cam phasers get plugged and they do, starves the top end of oil pressure and either have phaser failure or hydraulic lash adjuster failure collapsing and allowing the cam follower (rocker arm) to get sucked off and score the cams to death sending shreds of metal throughout the engine or, chain tensioner (a plastic slipper that pushes against timing chains) get chewed up and send debris through out the engine as well. Also built stock cars, a lot of small block Chevys and had quite a few hot rods over the years.

I probably wouldn't increase displacement, if I did it wouldn't be by much. Simply for the fact this isn't a liquid cooled engine,in am aware of the aftermarket oil coolers, that would probably be first. I have read about the oil pumps, chain tensioner failure, cam bearings, and the flywheels coming untrue.

I would probably do a gear drive for the cams, the higher volume oil pump from S&S, the cam bearings, raise compression spec out cams for my style but with the high temps down here, the only way I would know to cool this thing down would be to richen the fuel mixture. However as a witness to catastrophic failure in diesels, when the fuel is used to cool (on 6.4s when they go into regen they spray fuel in on the exhaust stroke to burn the soot out of the DPF) you have oil growth. Engine oil dilutes by the fuel getting past the rings, eventually the oil loses it's lubrication properties, from there in a 6.4 the turbo bearings shred, the lifters destroy their bores, rocker arms break, pushrods bend, and depending on how and when the lifter let go, I've seen pushrods fall into a cam and score the lobes or shred up the cam until it split in half. Then there's the whole good one where the oil level grew exponentially, whether due to lack of maintenance or high pressure fuel system leaks be it a leaky High pressure fuel pump shaft seal or ITP seal leak, jumper tube leak, etc. where the oil eventually drafted through and the engine ran away. Not that I'd have to worry about a runaway in a gas engine...

My main concern is heat, the bottom end failures that were prone in 88s, and flywheels coming untrue. For the guys who've built and dyno tuned these engines, is it advisable to run E85 when building these things up? Has it been done and if so aside from making changes to the fuel system to support E85 and re mapping for E85, has there been any issues down the road?
 
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Old May 30, 2016 | 11:05 AM
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First thing I would suggest is that you avoid any comparison between Ford diesels and the HD vtwin; different animals.

Crank failures were more common in the from '07 and up, the early TC88 bottom ends were sent out under a warranty spec of .003" for total runout but that changed to .012" in '07 when crank manufacture went off shore. The recommended limit for gear drive cams is .003", so before you buy a set of gear drive cams, check crank runout.

Don't understand the concern about increasing displacement?? I have increased the displacement of one of my TX88's to 107" but I did address the potential for crank failure by having the crank balanced and welded. Crank stability should be addressed with big inch motors.

I have attached a link from another well known tech forum on the subject of E85; much easier than trying to explain here......

http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index....c,27664.0.html
 
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Old May 30, 2016 | 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by djl
First thing I would suggest is that you avoid any comparison between Ford diesels and the HD vtwin; different animals.

Crank failures were more common in the from '07 and up, the early TC88 bottom ends were sent out under a warranty spec of .003" for total runout but that changed to .012" in '07 when crank manufacture went off shore. The recommended limit for gear drive cams is .003", so before you buy a set of gear drive cams, check crank runout.

Don't understand the concern about increasing displacement?? I have increased the displacement of one of my TX88's to 107" but I did address the potential for crank failure by having the crank balanced and welded. Crank stability should be addressed with big inch motors.

I have attached a link from another well known tech forum on the subject of E85; much easier than trying to explain here......

http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index....c,27664.0.html
It wasn't really a comparison rather I know what the plaguing issues are with those engines and how to correct them permanently. Every manufacturer has their issues and flaws. Some engineer somewhere cut a corner to save the company some money and it's the end user who paid for it.
The only comparison made was using fuel timing to cool the cylinders if displacement were to be increased and the timing chain tensioner failure in the gas jobs. I'm talking something like 115cubic inch+ realm. I'll have to read up on cylinder wall thickness and other specs on this engine.

The concern I have with displacement comes from a hot rodded big bore VW bug that developed hot spots in the cylinders (shut it off and it would diesel until it decided enough was enough) then eventually melted down like the power plant in japan. Wasn't that it didn't have a proper fuel air ratio and ran lean, or not enough piston to bore clearance, it could not get rid of the heat. Again apples to oranges because that was an engine that was enclosed and didn't have a sufficient air flow.

Aside from measuring runout for a gear drive (which I do with small blocks and big blocks along with ensuring there isn't any block core shift) I read somewhere about the flywheels being pressed together also about the clearances opening up just like you had mentioned, then the nasty vibration issue.
Easiest way, possibly cheapest way is to weld the crank. Any issues with connecting rods? Its not going to be an insane build with a turbo or anything that wild... Just bump sticks with a bit more lift and duration, possibly head porting and milling, and that would be good enough for me. I run wide open, I'm not the guy that puts pipes on and lugs the bike around in the low rpm range all day, sounding like a wet fart. I can't stand that. Open it up let it sing!
 
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Old May 30, 2016 | 02:32 PM
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Haha that was an entertaining read on the E85 between the skeptics and the proponent whom typed in run on sentences...

Personally and professionally I have yet to see issues with E85 other than it creates more power. When I dabbled in sprint cars back in NY they had a class called a race saver. 305 small blocks making 5-600hp on methanol. The other class they had ran 355s built however you wanted and they ran on E85-E100. Neither of those sprint car classes ran big radiators with huge electric fans on them like the sportsmans and modifieds... They ran cool. And some ran cement filled blocks like they did in drag cars...
 
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Old May 30, 2016 | 03:00 PM
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I think you are over thinking it too much. Lots of proven engine mods with over 100k miles. Pick the one that suits how your want to ride it and go from there.
 
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Old May 30, 2016 | 04:33 PM
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I probably am, and there's rarely anything built these days that's "bullet proof" and the old adage goes-have to pay if you want to play. Fast, cheap reliable. Pick 2 that's all you get. I'll take fast and reliable haha.
 
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Old May 30, 2016 | 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 13FXDWG
I probably am, and there's rarely anything built these days that's "bullet proof" and the old adage goes-have to pay if you want to play. Fast, cheap reliable. Pick 2 that's all you get. I'll take fast and reliable haha.
Haha....that's exactly it! There's some sort of assurance when you do your own research and homework then do the build yourself. For a lot of us, that's as bulletproof as it can get.
 
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Old May 30, 2016 | 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 13FXDWG
I probably am, and there's rarely anything built these days that's "bullet proof" and the old adage goes-have to pay if you want to play. Fast, cheap reliable. Pick 2 that's all you get. I'll take fast and reliable haha.
Food for thought and from the dealer; even a warranty on some if dealer installs. Introduced this year but already many on the street making good numbers. These are full blown kits but there are several variations all the way down to pistons and cylinders. As "big bore" as you can go with a 96"/103" motor without case boring. Cylinders drop in to OEM cases without modification.
 
Attached Thumbnails Plans for down the road-stage-v-compliant.jpg   Plans for down the road-stage-v-race.jpg  
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Old May 30, 2016 | 09:02 PM
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Doesn't give specs on the pistons, I'll assume they're hyper slugs... I wonder what the wrist pin size is... I have a nice set of super short skirt forged Mahle lightweight pistons with a relocated wrist pin (raised compression height) for a small block chevy standard bore. Someone goofed and sent me the wrong pistons for a race engine. Plus being custom made slugs and rings... They wouldn't take them back I refused to pay... Mahle customer service supervisor cleared it and sent me the right ones. 2k in pistons sitting in my tool box. So either someone got 4.060 pistons or someone mistakenly read it as 4.000...
 
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Old May 30, 2016 | 09:17 PM
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Heads combustion chamber and rocker arm routing resembles a hemi head. These look super easy to build. Obviously if the dealer were to warranty anything in that kit it'd only be the top end... Not for a crank issue or cam bearing failure. Unless you could prove the tech goofed and scored the bearings during removal or installation
 
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