Cam timing issues
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From: Akron ohio
Cam timing issues
First time posting to a forum so forgive me if I sound stupid. I have a 1999 road king flhpi has the M&M injection, just changed cams to the S&S 509 , in doing so it required me to change the rear outer sprocket because the factory one for 1999 was keyed and the new cam is splined like newer engines. I follow the instructions that says to line up the timing marks on the cams let's call them at 3 o'clock on the rear and 9 o'clock on the front all good so far right? More when I install the new andrews sprocket and line up the marks on it and the crank sprocket it moves the cams out of their alignment position is this correct? Or should all four marks be in alignment? Thanks in advance
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From: Akron ohio
After discussion with S&S today I know for sure all four marks should line up at the center line. But after talking to the Andrews tech I am pretty convinced they don't know beans from apple butter about their product i.e. The rear sprocket. During the conversation the tech suggested that if the inner cam chain was off the mark one tooth that the marks would still line up. I questioned the validity of that remark as during the assembly indeed indeed get it off one tooth and nowhere in the full cycle of the inner chain did the marks line up, hence I knew I was off one tooth. Nevertheless the dilemma still exist as to which has the faulty part? Is it the cams which the only thing I have to compair it too is the old cams and it is keyed not splined like the new cams ? and same with the rear sprocket old is keyed not splined like the new. Any suggestions I would appreciate.
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From: Somewhere SW
I'd pick up an S&S sprocket and then see how it goes.
Come to think of it you don't really need timing marks on the rear sprocket, just make sure you're at TDC and the cams are at 3 and 9
Come to think of it you don't really need timing marks on the rear sprocket, just make sure you're at TDC and the cams are at 3 and 9
Last edited by JustDave13; Sep 18, 2017 at 11:04 PM.
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From: Akron ohio
thanks Just Dave, I went with the Andrews sprocket because S&S does not offer a sprocket for the 1999 / 2000 twin cam which is unique being it has a flag for a cam position sensor that only the M&M injected bikes have. The Andrews sprocket was 20 bucks cheaper than the HD sprocket and is advertised as the direct replacement. And yes I have considered just lining ip the crank on the correct mark i.e. TDC or whatever the rear piston is at when the crank is on its mark and letting the rear sprocket be as long as the cams are on centerline. I just was looking for anyone who might of experienced this issue because of the cam position sensor needs to be in the correct clocked position and it definitely would not be with the sprocket not lined up with the crank mark, the problem is in the double spline location either in the sprocket or the cams. Neither manufacturer will admit a problem and being the bike is so old I really don't think they care because it's not like it's a high volume item. I guess my next step is to order the HD sprocket and compare both sprockets hopefully it's there and not the cams.
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From: Somewhere SW
thanks Just Dave, I went with the Andrews sprocket because S&S does not offer a sprocket for the 1999 / 2000 twin cam which is unique being it has a flag for a cam position sensor that only the M&M injected bikes have. The Andrews sprocket was 20 bucks cheaper than the HD sprocket and is advertised as the direct replacement. And yes I have considered just lining ip the crank on the correct mark i.e. TDC or whatever the rear piston is at when the crank is on its mark and letting the rear sprocket be as long as the cams are on centerline. I just was looking for anyone who might of experienced this issue because of the cam position sensor needs to be in the correct clocked position and it definitely would not be with the sprocket not lined up with the crank mark, the problem is in the double spline location either in the sprocket or the cams. Neither manufacturer will admit a problem and being the bike is so old I really don't think they care because it's not like it's a high volume item. I guess my next step is to order the HD sprocket and compare both sprockets hopefully it's there and not the cams.
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From: san antonio
Whether Andrews, OEM or S&S, the timing marks will be in the same place on the rear cam sprocket. Of course, first thing to be checked is that the dots on the cams are correctly aligned; they should be pointing directly at each other in the same plane. I have attached photos of the cam sprocket alignment at TDC for front and rear cylinders. Photo on the left is #2 or front cylinder at TDC and photo on the right is #1, rear cylinder at TDC.
Last edited by djl; Sep 20, 2017 at 09:36 AM.
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From: Akron ohio
Thanks for the reply, indeed I have run the the full cycle of the whole issue of are the cams aligned and what not. My issue is and just imagine it's not a twin cam that the only cam involved is the rear cam that the big rear sprocket attaches to, it spins that cam off of its center alignment position when it is aligned with the crank sprocket. That sprocket is keyed to that cam it can only go on in one position. Now if that one position causes the cam to be rotated during its alignment with the crank then there is a problem in the keyed position either in the cam or or the sprocket. Now it has been suggested that the mixing of one brand of cams and one brand of sprocket may be the problem. If that's the case then any aftermarket cam ever made would never match up to the stock sprocket produced after 2001 which this set of cams fit up to 2006 so I can't see that logic. It's my belief that the Andrews cam that was sold to me as a stock retrofit splined cam replacement is infact a advance race application sprocket that has no place in my motor. Hence I have purchased the Harley reccomended sprocket and this should solve my issue.
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HDF Community Team
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From: san antonio
Alrighty then.
However, I will also tell you that I have never seen a rear cam sprocket that would advance or retard cam timing. The pinion sprocket is the one used to advance/retard cam timing. I hope the OEM rear cam sprocket solves your problem but if it does, I would definitely call Gary at Andrews and send their sprocket back for a refund along with pictures.
However, I will also tell you that I have never seen a rear cam sprocket that would advance or retard cam timing. The pinion sprocket is the one used to advance/retard cam timing. I hope the OEM rear cam sprocket solves your problem but if it does, I would definitely call Gary at Andrews and send their sprocket back for a refund along with pictures.
