Need Some Clutch Help
Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,898
From: Bedford UK
That black stuff ain't healthy! Your thrust race started out life as two identical thrust washers with the bearing between them, so they should all be nice shiny clean steel.
Last edited by grbrown; Aug 13, 2016 at 05:17 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 21,143
Likes: 12,707
From: South Carolina
I suggest removing the clutch plates/discs and take a look, the spring plate may be kaput...
Item 23 in the illustration:
http://www.stcharlesharleydavidson.c...-80929-H030061
Item 23 in the illustration:
http://www.stcharlesharleydavidson.c...-80929-H030061
Getting deeper and deeper.
Got the primary cover off and the clutch out. The push rod does not look healthy at all. All spalled up. I think that was the cause of the clutch mis-behavior. Even getting it out took a couple of hits from a dead blow hammer to break it free. The way I see it, if that rod isn't moving freely, adjusting and operating the clutch (correctly) is not possible.
Got the clutch over at Mark's (the indy next door...everyone needs an indy next door). He's finishing up with another guy's bike, then we're going to pull the clutch apart and see how it looks. He thinks sandblasting the pushrod will get it back in shape. I'm going to take a gun cleaning brush and go through the shaft (that's the transmission mainshaft, right?) that holds the pushrod and get it cleaned up too.
Still hoping to find a definitive root cause to all of this. I honestly don't think my clutch or cable was ever so out of adjust that it would have caused the bearing to grenade like that. I guess anything's possible, but I just don't see it. Maybe we find something in the clutch that explains this, but even then I'm scratching my head. Up until a few days ago when all this started, everything operated perfectly.
Got the primary cover off and the clutch out. The push rod does not look healthy at all. All spalled up. I think that was the cause of the clutch mis-behavior. Even getting it out took a couple of hits from a dead blow hammer to break it free. The way I see it, if that rod isn't moving freely, adjusting and operating the clutch (correctly) is not possible.
Got the clutch over at Mark's (the indy next door...everyone needs an indy next door). He's finishing up with another guy's bike, then we're going to pull the clutch apart and see how it looks. He thinks sandblasting the pushrod will get it back in shape. I'm going to take a gun cleaning brush and go through the shaft (that's the transmission mainshaft, right?) that holds the pushrod and get it cleaned up too.
Still hoping to find a definitive root cause to all of this. I honestly don't think my clutch or cable was ever so out of adjust that it would have caused the bearing to grenade like that. I guess anything's possible, but I just don't see it. Maybe we find something in the clutch that explains this, but even then I'm scratching my head. Up until a few days ago when all this started, everything operated perfectly.
Almost there. The good news is the clutch itself checked out fine.
Got the main pushrod cleaned up. Sand blasted it, then chucked it up in a lathe and sanded it down a bit. Looks new.
The piece that sits right behind the clutch adjust bolt was really bad. It had mushroomed out badly. Got that sorted as well.
New bearing end piece (with umbrella) should be here Tuesday. Hopefully that is the end of this.
For now, I've got the primary side mostly back together. Those big bolts do take some tightening, don't they?
Mark is one of those guys who is a massively disorganised genius. His shop is large (at least 10k sq ft) and absolutely packed with everything. What isn't filled with large, stationary tools is filled with various engine parts lying around, and I swear he knows where each and every piece is at. It's quite the place.
Got the main pushrod cleaned up. Sand blasted it, then chucked it up in a lathe and sanded it down a bit. Looks new.
The piece that sits right behind the clutch adjust bolt was really bad. It had mushroomed out badly. Got that sorted as well.
New bearing end piece (with umbrella) should be here Tuesday. Hopefully that is the end of this.
For now, I've got the primary side mostly back together. Those big bolts do take some tightening, don't they?
Mark is one of those guys who is a massively disorganised genius. His shop is large (at least 10k sq ft) and absolutely packed with everything. What isn't filled with large, stationary tools is filled with various engine parts lying around, and I swear he knows where each and every piece is at. It's quite the place.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 38,537
Likes: 6,412
From: Honah Lee
Don't expect a lot from the push rod. The heat treating for end was probably a thin case harding on the end. That surface went the instant you used it for friction welding. No amount of polishing and machining will put it back. You should be fine for the short term but the clutch adjustment may go away in the long term. All those small part going thru there need replaced including the end adjuster screw if it showed wear.
Don't expect a lot from the push rod. The heat treating for end was probably a thin case harding on the end. That surface went the instant you used it for friction welding. No amount of polishing and machining will put it back. You should be fine for the short term but the clutch adjustment may go away in the long term. All those small part going thru there need replaced including the end adjuster screw if it showed wear.
Thanks for your help.
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That will make it erratic. Ever things adjusts fine but soon as it's running, it goes to crap. Clutch was not correct and it was spinning all the time. That is what the slack in the cable is for. Of course if the main adjustment is correct FIRST...
Only spins when clutch is pulled in. Be sure to check both ends of your push rod and the faces they run it. That is toast. Never seen one that bad.
Only spins when clutch is pulled in. Be sure to check both ends of your push rod and the faces they run it. That is toast. Never seen one that bad.
Here is the diagram that RIPSAW posted:
On my '90, that thing is two pieces: The adjuster screw itself looks like a piece of allthread, and then there is a separate "stub end" to the pushrod about 1.5" long that runs between the adjust screw and the main pushrod.
From what I can gather, the MoCo changed that out in '91 at the same time they added the umbrella. With the new design, the adjust screw is now integrated with the stub end into a single piece.
The adjust screw like mine is obsolete, but I found one on ebay. It looks like this:
I ended up ordering the complete kit from DS. Looks like this:
That's the '91+ design, but the book and the parts diagrams say it should all fit.
Good job on getting all new rods, once they heat up like that they get warped and bent and won't work worth a chit.
That being said the issue you are describing sounds like a shifter pawl needs to be adjusted. If it up shifts okay but does not down shift I would be checking the shifter pawl adjustment.
It needs to be centered in 3rd gear.
Poor clutch disengagement will give you hard shifting up or down.
That being said the issue you are describing sounds like a shifter pawl needs to be adjusted. If it up shifts okay but does not down shift I would be checking the shifter pawl adjustment.
It needs to be centered in 3rd gear.
Poor clutch disengagement will give you hard shifting up or down.