oil filter
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 1,964
From: Great State of Canada
No-one can argue that paper filters don't do the job. They've been around far too long for that.
Too much ? Not enough ? = not the point ! BS vs no BS is the point. You can debate tolerance issues all the way into chaos theory if you wish but I still doubt Engineers spec things out as "X".
Permanent filter buyers chase diminishing returns because, to them, its worth it among other things, to know what they're buying. If it isn't worth it to you , don't buy one but at least now you know what it is you are / aren't buying. Choices are 25-35 microns vs "X".
Thats the point.
It is the nature of hobbyists/enthusiasts to over-do things.
I'm a guitar player. I have guitar-playing friends who have spent over $10k on custom-made instruments. In reality, from the perspective of someone in the audience, not one person in 100 could tell the difference between their $10k custom job and a properly set up, off-the-rack, $750 Yamaha, but they think it is worth it.
Understand that I am not being critical of your decision. It's your bike and your money. Makes no difference to me what you do with either.
But the question was about oil filters, and it's my opinion that there is no evidence that OEM/equivalent filters are anything other than perfectly suitable.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 1,964
From: Great State of Canada
Exactly.
It is the nature of hobbyists/enthusiasts to over-do things.
I'm a guitar player. I have guitar-playing friends who have spent over $10k on custom-made instruments. In reality, from the perspective of someone in the audience, not one person in 100 could tell the difference between their $10k custom job and a properly set up, off-the-rack, $750 Yamaha, but they think it is worth it.
Understand that I am not being critical of your decision. It's your bike and your money. Makes no difference to me what you do with either.
But the question was about oil filters, and it's my opinion that there is no evidence that OEM/equivalent filters are anything other than perfectly suitable.
It is the nature of hobbyists/enthusiasts to over-do things.
I'm a guitar player. I have guitar-playing friends who have spent over $10k on custom-made instruments. In reality, from the perspective of someone in the audience, not one person in 100 could tell the difference between their $10k custom job and a properly set up, off-the-rack, $750 Yamaha, but they think it is worth it.
Understand that I am not being critical of your decision. It's your bike and your money. Makes no difference to me what you do with either.
But the question was about oil filters, and it's my opinion that there is no evidence that OEM/equivalent filters are anything other than perfectly suitable.
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 17
From: Rosamond, Cali
I like the K and P Engineering filters. It was about $150 up front, but I save about $10 every oil change by cleaning it. That's 15 oil changes, at one per 5,000 miles, at 75K miles it's paid for itself in absolute terms or nearly so. You have to replace the o-rings every once in a while. They cost a few bucks. So it's not like you'll save a bunch on such a filter, except over the very long haul maybe.
I didn't buy it for that purpose so much as my belief it's a better filter than the paper filters. Based on the posts in this thread, that remains to be seen I guess.
LOL.
If I was going to go with a paper filter, I'd probably do the Harley filter, or K&N which has a nice 'bolt' on the end for removal.
Alan
I didn't buy it for that purpose so much as my belief it's a better filter than the paper filters. Based on the posts in this thread, that remains to be seen I guess.
LOL. If I was going to go with a paper filter, I'd probably do the Harley filter, or K&N which has a nice 'bolt' on the end for removal.
Alan
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,376
Likes: 36
From: Round Rock, TX
We could probably run without a filter and be just dandy on our 3000 mile oil changes, unless you have a messy failure of some kind. Even then, a piece of old window screen would probably catch anything that would cause further damage.
But these are our babies, and we'll happily over-engineer the crap out of everything. Carry on. ;-)
But these are our babies, and we'll happily over-engineer the crap out of everything. Carry on. ;-)
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,830
Likes: 302
From: Lorain Ohio
I thought I read somewhere not to run the small micron filters or it wasn't necessary to. The evo filter is like 30 microns an the TC is 5 or 10. the large tolerances in the EVO motor makes it not necessary. Don't know if anyone has seen anything like that.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,332
Likes: 3,873
From: Upstate New York
Exactly.
It is the nature of hobbyists/enthusiasts to over-do things.
I'm a guitar player. I have guitar-playing friends who have spent over $10k on custom-made instruments. In reality, from the perspective of someone in the audience, not one person in 100 could tell the difference between their $10k custom job and a properly set up, off-the-rack, $750 Yamaha, but they think it is worth it.
Understand that I am not being critical of your decision. It's your bike and your money. Makes no difference to me what you do with either.
But the question was about oil filters, and it's my opinion that there is no evidence that OEM/equivalent filters are anything other than perfectly suitable.
It is the nature of hobbyists/enthusiasts to over-do things.
I'm a guitar player. I have guitar-playing friends who have spent over $10k on custom-made instruments. In reality, from the perspective of someone in the audience, not one person in 100 could tell the difference between their $10k custom job and a properly set up, off-the-rack, $750 Yamaha, but they think it is worth it.
Understand that I am not being critical of your decision. It's your bike and your money. Makes no difference to me what you do with either.
But the question was about oil filters, and it's my opinion that there is no evidence that OEM/equivalent filters are anything other than perfectly suitable.
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,426
Likes: 3,554
From: Texas
The problem with all that permanent filter stuff is there's no evidence that any of it means anything.
Back in engineering school, I had a professor who liked to use the phrase "Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a piece of chalk, cut it with an axe."
What he meant by that is that accuracy and precision are only meaningful if they are actually relevant in a specific engineering context. For example, consider the steel building that THC just built. It's made from a bunch of beams that are bolted together. The straightness of the building depends on the precision with which the holes are drilled into the beams. The engineering question then becomes "How precise is precise enough, and at what point is money spent on additional precision wasted?" No doubt it is theoretically possible to drill the holes in the beam with sub-micron precision. It is also true that anything within something like 1/16" is probably good enough.
In the case of engine oil and oil filters, I've never seen any evidence that filtration beyond that provided by OEM (or equivalent) filters makes any difference in any meaningful way. Sure, you can point to filter "X" and say it "filters better" than OEM, but what evidence do you have that it matters? Is the engine going to run cooler? Is the engine going to produce more power? Is the engine going to last longer? I think the answers to those questions are all speculative.
I don't have any evidence that those filters are going to hurt anything other than your wallet, but I don't understand what problem you think you are solving by using them.
Back in engineering school, I had a professor who liked to use the phrase "Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with a piece of chalk, cut it with an axe."
What he meant by that is that accuracy and precision are only meaningful if they are actually relevant in a specific engineering context. For example, consider the steel building that THC just built. It's made from a bunch of beams that are bolted together. The straightness of the building depends on the precision with which the holes are drilled into the beams. The engineering question then becomes "How precise is precise enough, and at what point is money spent on additional precision wasted?" No doubt it is theoretically possible to drill the holes in the beam with sub-micron precision. It is also true that anything within something like 1/16" is probably good enough.
In the case of engine oil and oil filters, I've never seen any evidence that filtration beyond that provided by OEM (or equivalent) filters makes any difference in any meaningful way. Sure, you can point to filter "X" and say it "filters better" than OEM, but what evidence do you have that it matters? Is the engine going to run cooler? Is the engine going to produce more power? Is the engine going to last longer? I think the answers to those questions are all speculative.
I don't have any evidence that those filters are going to hurt anything other than your wallet, but I don't understand what problem you think you are solving by using them.
Last edited by RLH3175; Sep 19, 2016 at 12:58 PM.