Evo Engine Balance Differences
Thread Starter
|
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8,565
Likes: 3,318
From: Cental, MI
Evo Engine Balance Differences
Welp...came up again the other day...Thanks to the MoCo and the "B" Softail engine...
some folks have decided that the EVO that was in Softails, was balanced Differently...in fact some say that the RubberMount engines were balanced rather haphazardly...some claim not at All!!
I Have a '99 Softail Evo Mill in my 1994 FXR. It seems smoother than the '93...but... very hard to Quantify in two different Bikes!!
No Guessing Please....I really would like to Know this Definitively!!
My Guess is...All The Same...Machine balanced and go!!!!
Game On!!!
some folks have decided that the EVO that was in Softails, was balanced Differently...in fact some say that the RubberMount engines were balanced rather haphazardly...some claim not at All!!
I Have a '99 Softail Evo Mill in my 1994 FXR. It seems smoother than the '93...but... very hard to Quantify in two different Bikes!!
No Guessing Please....I really would like to Know this Definitively!!
My Guess is...All The Same...Machine balanced and go!!!!
Game On!!!
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 800
From: Colorado
My vote, has nothing to do with difference in how the motors where put together, but more about may QC of parts to spec, and if the workers where more pissed off that year for upcoming union contract renewal.
Last edited by Dano523; Aug 16, 2023 at 05:56 AM.
Thread Starter
|
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8,565
Likes: 3,318
From: Cental, MI
Didn't track such Crap thereafter... so what was going on in the '90's is News to Me...
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 12,878
Likes: 5,448
From: la la land jerzey
Smith when we asked in the 70s said - equal weight flywheels his testing worked out to 60 percent was a 3000 RPM come into the smoothest balance below and above its going away again ‘
dump truck wheels in early machines one thick ( mud bogger ) and one thin wheels - 57 percent seems to be the spot the factory used backing up an untouched machine flywheels
racing is different and every engine combo is against the idea - 54 percent is sporty road racing at hi sustained RPMS 52 percent we used - every race the rider feed back lent its self to those numbers @ plus 150 it shows up and a unrideable and another fatigue issue
getting back to evo engines - we went up and down the balance numbers as we did a pile of strokers and hot stock stroke machines - 60 percent is not the end all of thats it the sweet spot BUT for almost all engines that is the right choice - we feel the actsented rear rod loop is the reason they require a finesse - the lighter you make the reciprocating pieces ( both pistons rings pins and clips — and both 1/2 the top of the connecting rods 1/2 top weight ) the smoother it becomes - we found the lighter we made the top the faster it revs and smoother it got - the lower balance stuff rotating weight - is the Mud bogging stuff and the changes are not countable in the factors BUT lighter over all in weight does have a direct affect on how fast measured on a dyno with an engagement bottom — the time it takes to rev up is measured < speed of torque is what your after not HP in this equitation HP is the wide open power number - and not the drivability power you use when you turn the throttle < its the torque ( grunt ) and how fast the unit can make it is what racing it all about
dump truck wheels in early machines one thick ( mud bogger ) and one thin wheels - 57 percent seems to be the spot the factory used backing up an untouched machine flywheels
racing is different and every engine combo is against the idea - 54 percent is sporty road racing at hi sustained RPMS 52 percent we used - every race the rider feed back lent its self to those numbers @ plus 150 it shows up and a unrideable and another fatigue issue
getting back to evo engines - we went up and down the balance numbers as we did a pile of strokers and hot stock stroke machines - 60 percent is not the end all of thats it the sweet spot BUT for almost all engines that is the right choice - we feel the actsented rear rod loop is the reason they require a finesse - the lighter you make the reciprocating pieces ( both pistons rings pins and clips — and both 1/2 the top of the connecting rods 1/2 top weight ) the smoother it becomes - we found the lighter we made the top the faster it revs and smoother it got - the lower balance stuff rotating weight - is the Mud bogging stuff and the changes are not countable in the factors BUT lighter over all in weight does have a direct affect on how fast measured on a dyno with an engagement bottom — the time it takes to rev up is measured < speed of torque is what your after not HP in this equitation HP is the wide open power number - and not the drivability power you use when you turn the throttle < its the torque ( grunt ) and how fast the unit can make it is what racing it all about
Thread Starter
|
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8,565
Likes: 3,318
From: Cental, MI
That is a Great summation John... Useful Information to Builders Certainly...
My Question really Is... Did the MoCo use Different Factor? Or Even do this with a Humanoid??? and Were the Softail (rigid mounted) differ from the Rubbermounted?
My Question really Is... Did the MoCo use Different Factor? Or Even do this with a Humanoid??? and Were the Softail (rigid mounted) differ from the Rubbermounted?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 12,878
Likes: 5,448
From: la la land jerzey
Flywheels as i know it from a Harley tech that was a 25 years employ - all of them were what you got some right on some were not - flywheels were picked for the next assembly when done it was on a meat hook and pistons were an average weight same thing rod set and nuts as well
what they never accounted for was a hard spot in the metal and that dense spot was heavier then the iron around it - i had a 1/2 dozen sets that could not be balanced out using the old method BUT. The new spinning machine said they were in spec and zeroed them
we used them 600 miles later the heritage softail the rear fender was broken in 3 places and the directional foot long holder only had one light on it
the static machine found it - the only other way that it was done was a military hang crude but its combat balancing a machine that has a life of around 1 hour WW2
military hang flywheels with one rod and piston and a drill with a bit placed across two pieces of thin steel - and have at it till it stops moving
what they never accounted for was a hard spot in the metal and that dense spot was heavier then the iron around it - i had a 1/2 dozen sets that could not be balanced out using the old method BUT. The new spinning machine said they were in spec and zeroed them
we used them 600 miles later the heritage softail the rear fender was broken in 3 places and the directional foot long holder only had one light on it
the static machine found it - the only other way that it was done was a military hang crude but its combat balancing a machine that has a life of around 1 hour WW2
military hang flywheels with one rod and piston and a drill with a bit placed across two pieces of thin steel - and have at it till it stops moving
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21,028
Likes: 7,549
From: Poolville
Never had a stock motor in my Softail so I couldn't say.. BUT I did go through a lot of tail light bulbs and the rear fender is cracked considerably at the mounts.. They can vibrate like all hell.. Not so much anymore thanks to John..
Trending Topics
Club Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 66,104
Likes: 51,377
From: Niles Canyon Ca.
Somebody correct me if I'm off here but I didn't think the moco had a counterbalanced engine in the evo line, though all that came about with twinkies.
I know they pissed around with several flywheel configurations across the life span, later ones were heavily automated during production and assembly processes. Held tighter specs.
I know they pissed around with several flywheel configurations across the life span, later ones were heavily automated during production and assembly processes. Held tighter specs.
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Southpaw Super Glide: A Left-Hand-Drive 1979 Harley FXE Built to Fit the Rider
Verdad Gallardo
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 21,028
Likes: 7,549
From: Poolville
Somebody correct me if I'm off here but I didn't think the moco had a counterbalanced engine in the evo line, though all that came about with twinkies.
I know they pissed around with several flywheel configurations across the life span, later ones were heavily automated during production and assembly processes. Held tighter specs.
I know they pissed around with several flywheel configurations across the life span, later ones were heavily automated during production and assembly processes. Held tighter specs.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 12,878
Likes: 5,448
From: la la land jerzey
The thin wheels came along in late 1981 when they was changing back to Harley from AMF but. They used the straight rods as did very early evos
now no one noticed the extra vibes as they were paying attention and were hands on so to speak - by 83 the first of the evos were showing up in show rooms spotty one hear and one over that place — my recall was the more they got the less interest in the shovelhead and many dealers took a good while to empty the show room of them — sure the die hards bought them but - the evo was new life - stock options were booming in sales and they were advertising again first time in many moons — and the machine quality was up - ***** wanted to make the company a haberdashery and in malls would have been the the cats a$$ instead they closed all the mom and pop shops that fed them for a century - you need to spend millions on a show room to sell bike -
then discontinue making the old parts that were a main stay in sales in the old dealers - did it work the bean counters will tell you yea - but now they flooded the market with throw away cookie cutter rambler Americans special edition only 26 thousand built in that color — yea now they are are crying once again - who ya gonna call maybe ghost busters
now no one noticed the extra vibes as they were paying attention and were hands on so to speak - by 83 the first of the evos were showing up in show rooms spotty one hear and one over that place — my recall was the more they got the less interest in the shovelhead and many dealers took a good while to empty the show room of them — sure the die hards bought them but - the evo was new life - stock options were booming in sales and they were advertising again first time in many moons — and the machine quality was up - ***** wanted to make the company a haberdashery and in malls would have been the the cats a$$ instead they closed all the mom and pop shops that fed them for a century - you need to spend millions on a show room to sell bike -
then discontinue making the old parts that were a main stay in sales in the old dealers - did it work the bean counters will tell you yea - but now they flooded the market with throw away cookie cutter rambler Americans special edition only 26 thousand built in that color — yea now they are are crying once again - who ya gonna call maybe ghost busters
